Tech Exploited
If you struggle in math and science, you can still become a successful engineer! Tech Exploited host, Sharon Pak went from failing all her high school math classes to building rocket engines. TE interviews successful engineers from all backgrounds and refuses to gatekeep tips for breaking into the hottest tech companies.
Tech Exploited
An Amazon Recruiter's Hiring Secrets
Have you always dreamed of working at Amazon? Do you need help finding resources to prepare for your coding interviews? How do you get a job with "no experience?"
Whether you have a computer science degree or are self-taught, Michael, an Amazon AWS recruiter shares proven strategies to stand out in the competitive job market.
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are solely my guest's and my own. They do not express the views or opinions of our employers.
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are solely my guest's and my own. They do not express the views or opinions of our employers.
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00:00.00
sharonpak5
Hi guys welcome to tech exploited where we will be going through different tech talks with various professionals in the tech field and uncovering what it's really like to be in tech and how to get into this industry so today I'll be talking. But my good friend Michael King who is a Aws technical recruiter for Amazon and so yeah, Michael um, lead us lead the way like tell us a little bit about yourself. How long you've been a technical recruiter and yeah.
00:36.24
Michael Kang
Yeah, um I guess specifically a technical recruiter I I started back in early Twenty Twenty one so I've technically been only doing it for about um a year or about 2 years now I started as a recruiting coordinator. Um, and they were basically kind of helpers to recruiters and then I just kind of had an interest in it I learned and kind of started sourcing candidates. Um aka recruiting them on the side while also doing my scheduling tasks and then I just built up some great relations with the recruiters that I was working with and I was partnered up with.
01:11.20
sharonpak5
I have.
01:13.38
Michael Kang
And eventually they just invited me to join the team and that's kind of how I got into this whole world of technical recruiting at ah Amazon Amazon aw us.
01:21.94
sharonpak5
Gotcha awesome and so did you do any other type of recruiting before going to technical recruiting Amazon or have you always only done technical recruiting.
01:31.36
Michael Kang
Um, yeah, it's a great question I so you can tactically say recruiting is essentially a sales job so I had a bit of experience as a licensed sales representative at all State insurance. So I definitely am very familiar with cold calling.
01:45.67
sharonpak5
Um.
01:48.78
Michael Kang
Um, and dealing with a lot of rejection and I think that got me really like ready and set for a job such as this although we didn't really have to call the candidates to recruit them Initially. We did have to send a lot of emails a lot of cold emails and then we had to essentially get really crafty About. You know, maybe the subject line or kind of the content in the email like make sure there's no links because 99% of time if there's links in the email they go to spam. Um, so we we we get really crafty with that. So I'm I'm very I guess used to um that whole like sales role. And I think that's what recruiting essentially is.
02:24.41
sharonpak5
Yeah gotcha okay well getting right into some things that might be interesting for maybe college students or people that are interested into getting into Amazon and working for like Aws right um. I guess what are some skills that you look at um that are like the most valuable when you're like going through people's profiles on Linkedin or looking at resumes where you're like ohh that's good I must send it to the hiring manager like what do you technically look for.
02:57.25
Michael Kang
Ah, yeah, that's a great question. Um, loaded question as well because there's there's really a lot of things that you can look for in a resume. But for me, um, a lot of the things that I look for were great adjectives at the very beginning something like they spearheaded.
03:11.70
sharonpak5
Um, and.
03:12.99
Michael Kang
Or they kind of were a leader in um, a lot of those things that's kind of like a big like catch phrasee or like a word that I'd be looking for that would catch my eye and I'd be like all right? So I want to see what else they have to say about that and then um in the resume if they're very specific about their accomplishments. Um, and what I mean by specific is if they have. Ah, very like hard data percentages numbers on you know things they accomplished like they worked in a project and because because they increased something within the workflow by 17 % um the business was x y z successful something like that. So that's kind of what I searched for initially um.
03:42.44
sharonpak5
Like yes.
03:50.37
Michael Kang
Especially in a lot of like tech resumes I want to see that they led projects I Want to see that they they were constantly improving some sort of function to you know, maybe maybe like a like a button for a website. You know it could be something small but I just want to see that they're making an effort actively to make. Make a programmer make a software more efficient.
04:12.50
sharonpak5
Okay, and so I feel like that's probably more um, relevant and for people that have been working in the industry for a couple of years right where it's like they've improved something by certain metric or maybe like they even did that at like an internship if you will right.
04:19.23
Michael Kang
So.
04:27.10
Michael Kang
Um, yeah.
04:27.32
sharonpak5
But for like students who are just like right out of score maybe like they don't even have like a cs degree but they like learn cs on the side like on their own or something like that like what would you look for or like recommend people with that type of background to do if they're interested in working for a company like Amazon.
04:45.10
Michael Kang
Yeah I I guess this applies to tech people. But honestly anyone else too If if you're if you're trying to get into whatever profession you're trying to get into I think you need to work on projects. Um, and I guess specifically for tech people If if you're you're developing software. Right? Just find projects and start developing software just keep coding every day and then talk about your accomplishments and post your your projects and what you've accomplished on Github as Well. That's something a lot of recruiters especially Tech recruiters will be looking for to see like your accomplishments, especially if you're new and then also.
05:07.77
sharonpak5
Shit.
05:18.60
Michael Kang
I Think a lot of colleges. They want to simulate um what it's like to work in a corporate setting. So if um, if if you're in school you're working on a project. Did you kind of help spearhead. You know some of the the bigger components and aspects in that project and then.
05:22.99
sharonpak5
Um, and then.
05:32.63
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.
05:33.75
Michael Kang
And then if you're able to collect some really like crucial data on like what did you do specifically to impact that project and by like what percentage right? And you're really specific but specific about that I think that's something and recruiters are really like adamant about looking for. We want to see that you know you're not just someone that kind of coast by.
05:38.10
sharonpak5
I Heard evna.
05:51.44
Michael Kang
Um, and does the very minimum. We want to see that you're you're excelling and you're always trying to find something to make that project better or like that um software whatever you're working on a little bit better.
06:02.70
sharonpak5
And so like do recruiters like actually like when they go into see like a github project like what are some projects that you've seen where you're like Wow like that's really cool.
06:16.10
Michael Kang
Yeah, that's a great question. Um I've seen so this is personally as ah as a gamer and you probably know where this is going I've seen a lot of developers create games or or better yet they like there's a game I used to play a world world of Warcraft we're going to go on a little tangent here.
06:21.12
sharonpak5
He.
06:28.51
sharonpak5
Okay.
06:32.38
Michael Kang
Um, and it's it's kind of a technical game. There's a lot of like add-ons that you can download to enhance the interface of the game. So it'll make it more convenient and there's like quality of life changes that'll make the game easier to play so a developer. Um, yeah, they made a really great application that made it very easy for the player to see.
06:38.83
sharonpak5
Okay, oh okay.
06:52.30
Michael Kang
How much damage they were outputting and I was like that's a really cool a on and he's like I did this and there were there were X amount of downloads for this um project that I made the software I made for this game and I'm like oh that's a really cool accomplishment. So I mean that goes to show like even though it's just a game and even though this is something little that he added.
07:06.20
sharonpak5
Um, last ever.
07:11.64
Michael Kang
Home Many like so many people found value out of it I don't know the exact number but I know the download count was over over a hundred K So I yeah something I know something around that around that page that I was really impressed by that and I was like that's a really cool github project that you worked on our project that you put on Github yeah.
07:17.57
sharonpak5
Wow.
07:27.12
sharonpak5
Gotcha and I think that you had like a personal attachment to it too right? since you had played that game world of Warcraft you're like oh like I know what that game is like that. Mod's real. Is it like a mod is that what it is like okay.
07:35.29
Michael Kang
Um, yeah, it's essentially just a mod. Yeah, an add on Mod same thing. Yeah.
07:42.68
sharonpak5
Gotcha okay so like anything. So do you think that like the reason why the project was so cool is because I had so much visibility and so that person was able to say like a 100000 people downloaded it and they're using it currently is that what gave it like that extra like clout if you will or.
07:57.83
Michael Kang
Yeah, yeah, Cloud Yeah, that's actually yeah, that's exactly what it is I think I think that shows that um, you know he made something that was impactful. So if he if he did that just for a video game. What you think he could do if he's working in a corporate setting. You know for a big company like a to B west.
08:05.28
sharonpak5
And.
08:11.85
sharonpak5
Sure sure okay gotcha. So.
08:13.87
Michael Kang
Right? There's correlations. Yeah there there can be correlations definitely and I just thought that that's a very talented thing and he went out of his way to make it too. Yeah.
08:22.45
sharonpak5
Okay, has to ever been like a github project that you've seen that maybe didn't have as many downloads like maybe it then I have like 100000 downloads but you're like like what helps make someone like stand out if they don't have a bunch of downloads or do you just like pass and by and be like oh this guy.
08:38.82
Michael Kang
I.
08:41.58
sharonpak5
Hasn't really done anything like a lot of people haven't really like seen it. He doesn't have a cs degree like why should I pick up this guy. You know.
08:46.42
Michael Kang
Um, yeah, no absolutely yeah I mean honestly for me too I think a lot of the github projects I looked at they were very supplementary to what I initially saw in the resume. So like I wouldn't I wouldn't even check a lot of github projects out unless I was like.
08:53.49
sharonpak5
Um, yeah, and.
09:01.43
Michael Kang
All right. There's a lot of lot in the resume that I'm really interested in. Let me let me check their github to see if there's more projects that you know they may have not mentioned That's really the only time I'd really look otherwise I would pass by a lot of resumes because there wasn't a lot of specificity in what they did. There wasn't a lot of clarification on what.
09:08.97
sharonpak5
Godwa.
09:14.39
sharonpak5
And.
09:18.24
Michael Kang
What did they specifically do to have an impact on whatever they're working on. They were just listing out things that they were doing on a daily basis. Their daily tasks and just kind of like this is what I did and I'm like okay that's that's not really a lot of information. Um, and that's not really impressive what we're looking for. We're looking for leaders. We want. We want to see someone.
09:24.76
sharonpak5
And.
09:35.22
sharonpak5
And then.
09:38.67
Michael Kang
Um, even if they're like just a college student right? Even if you're just kind of starting out. Um, you don't have any professional industry experience. Um, if if you if you show leadership qualities in terms of like a project like I said earlier that you led for school right.
09:50.76
sharonpak5
Yeah.
09:54.82
Michael Kang
I Think that that goes a long way. Um, and if you can really quantify that data. It's It's very big and something that a lot of recruiters are looking for how great all right, bring him on.
10:03.12
sharonpak5
Gotcha I have 2 questions for you now I feel like these are kind of like the controversial like recruiter like resume type of things. So I just want to hear your opinion on them. So the first one is how do you feel about 2 page resumes and the second one is.
10:12.55
Michael Kang
And.
10:19.50
sharonpak5
How do you feel about the summary section. You know people will put like oh like I am a really good communicative like leader like I learned quickly like that. Ah, but they write like a 2 or 3 like sentencing at the top of their resume like. Do you like those or if you see that you're like not get that out of here I want to see like a list of skills instead like how do you feel about those 2 things so 1 more than 1 page long resumes and 2 summary sections on the resumes.
10:41.00
Michael Kang
Um, yeah, okay, okay so I'll be completely transparent I'll be completely transparent here. We we go and we sift through I Want to say I I in my like.
10:50.11
sharonpak5
Yeah, yeah.
10:58.35
Michael Kang
And my heyday when I was at my best I would say I sifted through 300 to like 350 candidates daily. Um, and the only way I would do that is if I took less than 10 seconds to glance at a resume. So.
11:04.24
sharonpak5
350 candidates daily.
11:16.61
Michael Kang
I'm sure that goes to tell you a lot right? especially in the tech industry because I was looking for more senior developers right? people with five is years of experience or more right? So specifically for me. Um, there's just so many people in the pipeline. So many people.
11:21.62
sharonpak5
Um, okay, yeah, but okay.
11:31.72
Michael Kang
Jumping from you know the biggest fan companies to another fanme company or it's it's called Mang now whatever you want to call it now. Um, but but I I didn't have a lot of time because I had to go through so many. Um and it got to the point and I don't want to devalue recruiters by niche any any means here it got to the point where.
11:32.42
sharonpak5
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:40.59
sharonpak5
Sure.
11:49.88
Michael Kang
We Um, we basically were kind of reaching out to anyone that I like I had a heartbeat we could say like are you brilliant? Yeah no, but like essentially and you exactly can you code and do you have a pulse. That's what it ultimately came down to.
11:57.37
sharonpak5
Okay, you have a polls can you code like yeah.
12:05.73
Michael Kang
And it was very low cost for us because we just invite them to take an online assessment and if they didn't pass the online assessment. It's no big deal to us because they take it on their own time. We just kind of we kind of schedule it for them. We send it out and they can take it whatever but the link expires. So I always kind of try to press my my candidates to be like hey.
12:08.68
sharonpak5
Are.
12:24.71
Michael Kang
Link is going to expire. Can you please take it on this date and give them a deadline even though I can refresh it myself like I can just refresh the link. So yeah, we can talk about this? Yeah okay.
12:31.31
sharonpak5
That's interesting. So let's let's go into that so you can you could refresh the link right? So you send them a coding like exam test preliminary. Whatever you want to call it. Um and let's say they have like how long did they normally have to take it after you send them that link.
12:39.49
Michael Kang
Um, yeah.
12:47.20
Michael Kang
Okay, so this is like kind of Amazon so Amazon secrets but not really like you're totally free to disclose this information but I was told personally to tell your candidates they have a seven day limit on the on the day after you send it so one week to take it. Yeah.
12:52.21
sharonpak5
Okay, okay.
13:01.34
sharonpak5
So you have one week okay
13:06.41
Michael Kang
But because I was trying to be a personable recruiter I wanted my candidates to put their best foot forward one week may not be enough if they're completely out of touch with lead code which is the style of of coding that they're going to be doing for this online assessment. So I would tell them.
13:13.77
sharonpak5
Sure.
13:21.52
Michael Kang
Hey man I can always refresh this link but it'll probably expire within a week and and then if if you can't hit the link or for whatever reason doesn't work then just reach out to me and I'll I'll reset the link for you but take your time and study and I would kind of give them tips and prep them and make sure they're really ready to take it and I think that's what a lot of recruiters Miss because.
13:39.46
sharonpak5
I have.
13:39.96
Michael Kang
For for Amazon especially in Aws Recruiters saw it as a numbers game. We looked at the data we looked specifically at like all right? How many online assessments you have to send out to get 1 candidate to go to an on-site interview and then once they make it to an onsite interview will they accept the offer.
13:54.92
sharonpak5
Um, gotcha.
13:57.88
Michael Kang
So we're looking at it through ah through the pipeline and then just strictly data and saying like all right, Let's just send them out and then let's not communicate to these gaandits until they pass either pass it and have to go to an onsite or you know that's that's it That's kind of the end of the line. You just won't communicate after that and you'll just.
14:02.11
sharonpak5
I have.
14:13.80
sharonpak5
Ah.
14:14.46
Michael Kang
They'll get sent in the email saying they got rejected automatically.
14:15.55
sharonpak5
So going back to the whole like you can extend it like what's the what's the longest he's ever extended it for like a month two months like
14:21.78
Michael Kang
Um, yeah, oh I've there I there I mean honestly, there's probably still people that haven't taken it. Um, even though I sent it back in like july. Maybe maybe even in June and they just have it sitting in their email. Yeah yeah.
14:36.98
sharonpak5
So even though it's expired and it was from like six months ago because right now it's December right? And you're saying July was that's about like six months ago so you could still have them take it again. Six months later even though the link expired after a week of use. Okay.
14:52.86
Michael Kang
Yes I can just I can refresh the link I can go back just refresh the link. They'll get an email saying like hey you can take the online assessment again. Um, the only issue is if they've already taken the assessment and if they've failed they have a six month cooling period before they can take it again.
15:02.88
sharonpak5
Ah, ah, ah, okay, interesting. So it's like you failed the exam but you have six months to kind of like freshen up on your skills see if you could do a little bit better next time.
15:10.49
Michael Kang
Yeah.
15:18.27
sharonpak5
And then you could send them another one six months later. Interesting sure.
15:21.55
Michael Kang
Exactly that that could be a to us specific though just because Amazon's so big. The way they do. The assessments are completely different. Some some may do a phone interview right? and and I know all of Aws were trying to standardize doing online assessments. Um.
15:34.98
sharonpak5
Ah.
15:35.56
Michael Kang
Which which is shown um which is sort of a bit more like accuracy rate in terms of how can it's perform during the onset interview. Yeah.
15:41.64
sharonpak5
Interesting. That's fascinating. Okay, and then when you would prep these candidates right? Like how would you prep them.
15:50.70
Michael Kang
Yeah, that's that's a great question. So again, this is completely up to discretion of the recruiter. So as a recruiter you have complete reign over how you handle talking to candidates how you handle you know your pipeline. What do you want to do how personal you want to be how much how much.
15:55.61
sharonpak5
And.
16:08.38
Michael Kang
Um, information you want to give them in terms of like do you want them to text you back and stuff you want to give them your personal number. So um for me and what method worked really well for me and kind of how I think I was successful in my role is I would spend more time in prepping them and not really so scaring them is probably not the best word but like really laying them. No. Letting them know that this is not easy like if you're out of touch with Leeco. You're not going to do well on this test and it's not going to be exactly like a real world simulation right? I tell them like hey you're gonna want to hit the books again, you want to go back to some of the things you learned in college right? like hash maps and like um.
16:28.64
sharonpak5
Yeah, yeah.
16:35.26
sharonpak5
Yeah, so.
16:45.69
Michael Kang
I Mean there's like some other terms. It's It's been a while since I prepped a candidate but but essentially yeah, those are things they learned back in college in their you know Cs classes. So I'm like go back brush up on some of those things and then go and practice leak code at the lead code site. There's like easy questions medium questions and then there's hard questions.
16:52.47
sharonpak5
Um.
17:00.17
sharonpak5
Has.
17:02.33
Michael Kang
And I always tell them if you can do the medium questions in around 30 minutes or less you're going to be in good shape for the tests. Otherwise um I would yeah tell like I would just study and and practice and just keep doing those problems every day.
17:06.14
sharonpak5
And.
17:13.73
sharonpak5
So would you say that like I've heard that a really big thing for my friends in computer science is like cracking the coding interview like that book so between like that book and going to the leak code website. You're nodding your heads I'm assuming that's good advice. And so if you're to a like solve those medium level difficulty questions and then read through that book and do those practice exercises would you say that you're in pretty good shape to like pass like an a Ws interview for whatever position here. You're trying to get into.
17:44.30
Michael Kang
Yes, absolutely so I'll I'll elaborate a little bit more because it'll make more sense in terms of context I'll elaborate on the levels for Amazon so and sd one they don't really need to know a lot about system design and that's that's going to be important later because that's that's the rule for.
17:51.79
sharonpak5
Okay.
18:03.45
Michael Kang
I guess a more senior developer but at Amazon the way we say sd 2 is like a senior developer for any other midmarket company. So the title is different where it doesn't seem like you're senior at Amazon but it is actually a very senior level role. So yes, for.
18:07.42
sharonpak5
A ship like. Okay.
18:21.89
Michael Kang
For interviewing at Amazon if you if you look through cracking the coding interview. Um I think that's one of the best books by ah Gail Lachman Mcdowell I think is the author's name I always recommend that because a lot of the interviews at Amazon the ones that I've talked to ones I've worked with they recommend that book as well. So 100% use that book.
18:26.79
sharonpak5
Um, and.
18:37.72
sharonpak5
Gotcha.
18:40.32
Michael Kang
And then practice lead code problems I think that's one of the best things to do just go to the website and just just heads down practice them. Maybe just a few a day. You don't have to like spend hours every day you know, just spend like an hour maybe half an hou hour maybe half an hou hour each day. Whatever your preference is and then the thing about the the interview is.
18:48.71
sharonpak5
Then I heard.
18:58.74
Michael Kang
That if you're more I guess more junior you have 1 or 2 years of industry experience and you don't know system design that well um, but you know coding really? well. Um, if you can get some of that um experience in system design. You could probably be leveled up to an sd two which they get a much higher pay band. So.
19:17.15
sharonpak5
Um.
19:18.23
Michael Kang
I know it seems like a small step but learning system design knowing system design. Um, there's also a lot of resources out there on the internet in terms of like Youtube videos. Um that I would usually recommend I don't have those links on me. But yeah, that's really the only thing coding is all the same almost across the board from a junior developer to a senior developer. Obviously it's a little bit harder for senior developer but coding and in terms of like how you interview for it at Amazon. It's almost like a very similar bar. So yeah, lead code is it's important and a lot of people. Um, find that to be Bs lack of a better word because.
19:45.27
sharonpak5
Gotcha.
19:51.37
sharonpak5
Okay.
19:54.16
Michael Kang
I Just remember hearing from a lot of candidates that they'd be like yeah I know this is not like a real life simulation because we don't do le code problems in work right? We don't do these problems every day like this is not something that is going to be. Um, yeah, it doesn't it doesn't technically test how well I'm going to be.
20:01.48
sharonpak5
Sure sure.
20:12.75
sharonpak5
Sure yeah.
20:12.87
Michael Kang
Ah, as a corporate worker right? or like what I'm going to produce So that's that's the part that kind of sucks. But at the same time. Um I don't usually counterargu with this but in my mind I'm like well you should still be able to do these like basic fundamental questions because they're essentially puzzles that will mimic what you do in real life. Um.
20:23.71
sharonpak5
Ah, ah sure it's kind of like the a Ts right? like for college where it's like you're not going to really need a.
20:31.67
Michael Kang
Potentially yeah, yep, exactly.
20:39.40
sharonpak5
Do those s sat problems again while you're in college but you need to take the sat exam for you to get into college I feel like it's the same thing but for like getting into these big like Meng Feg companies right? where it's like you have to practice elite code. Just do it and then prove that you have the skills and then get the job. That's how you get the job right.
20:52.55
Michael Kang
Yep. Yeah, it's it's a skill on it's an interviewing thing too. So again like coding is very important but Amazon also has leadership principles right? It's gonna say yeah, it's a good segue.
21:07.33
sharonpak5
Let's talk about that a little bit. Okay, so so Amazon's leadership principle. So let's say you are the best coder in the whole world. But I know like that Amazon kind of has like its technical portion and then it has like its non-technical portion.
21:13.86
Michael Kang
6
21:23.60
sharonpak5
Its interviews so maybe like walk us through like the interview process of Amazon like how many phases there are and then like how important the technical side is wade versus like the nontechnical side like the leadership principle side of it is wade and evaluating a candidate.
21:36.96
Michael Kang
Great! Great question. Yeah, this is probably the best question and the one I get the most often is well from candidates. Um, so I would honestly do like 70 maybe like 808020 in terms of technical 80% and the 20% behavioral questions. Um.
21:41.00
sharonpak5
This is.
21:51.71
sharonpak5
Okay.
21:54.65
Michael Kang
And that's kind of how you split your time. Ah, and there's so much talk about it's kind of hard to like. Yeah.
21:57.54
sharonpak5
Right? So that's how you split up your time but is that also the the relevance in getting you the job. So let's say you're like 80% like solid right on your technical part but you're like 20% and you don't get it like you get 20% of the questions wrong for leak code right? But let's say it's reversed.
22:06.76
Michael Kang
Who.
22:16.57
sharonpak5
For your your leadership principles. So would you get the job. So let's say like you're rear. You're really really bad at your leadership principles but you get like 1 or 2 that are pretty like solid and you nail them down like would you get it or do you like how's that weighed out.
22:28.10
Michael Kang
So here's the fun thing. It would really depend on which leadership principle it is because they will they will compromise they'll be like well they werere so good at coding but they weren't very great in terms of this behavioral like question are they coachable in this one.
22:33.44
sharonpak5
Interesting. So they're not all weighed the same.
22:45.85
Michael Kang
So there's a few things that you can be coachable in and there's a few behavioral questions that we ask where if you answer in a certain way. We know you won't be coachable because that's just kind of your nature and your character. Um, there's there's one called earns trust at Amazon that's kind of the one we we take the most seriously of.
22:54.66
sharonpak5
Like what can't you be coachable in.
23:05.18
Michael Kang
Of all the behavioral questions and every single interview at Amazon so earns trust essentially is your ability to um, obviously earn the trust of your teammates earn the trust of you know any any customers that you're working with of the business etc and are you kind of a team player right? So if if there's any hint.
23:17.71
sharonpak5
And.
23:23.14
Michael Kang
Where you kind of make a out of line selfish decision or you do something really reckless right? And you're not really being thoughtful. Um, which it's it blows my mind. How many many candidates will kind of blow it in their interview by by saying something. That's just. Way out of line or way out of hand saying like oh yeah I had a really bad argument with my manager I just didn't agree with him and in their heads are like I was pushing back I was being good because I know my way's better, but then they don't have what you could say that? no you could see it. What.
23:49.65
sharonpak5
As disagreeing and committing.
23:57.13
Michael Kang
But they had no data to back it up. They just said they based it off their feelings right? So something like that it does not earn the trust of their manager does not earn the trusts of their team and maybe they just went and made the changes to a certain like software right? and then now they they're like all right, You just took that huge risk. Maybe it worked out and that's why they told the story. Maybe it worked out and.
24:13.60
sharonpak5
Okay.
24:16.47
Michael Kang
I praise for it. But how risky is that like there was there was no like communication. There was no like reaching out to a friend or a peer or a coworker being like hey what are your thoughts? Maybe I'll look something up and and Google it even like Google it and find like more data on this before I make any changes right? We want to see that you're going to make. Um, big changes. We want to see that you're gonna have an impact but like at what cost are you are you like? are you gonna make some drastic change without any data like you're just gonna go for based off a feeling that's too. Risky. We don't want to bring someone like that on the team. Exactly yeah, we don't.
24:35.73
sharonpak5
And. The. Like don't work in a silo like we want collaboration type of deal. Okay, and.
24:52.52
Michael Kang
We don't want someone with a big ego Essentially like I know it kind of sounds bad but like that's gonna that's gonna have a big impact like are you a team play are you are You are you willing to also by by disagreeing commit have backbone disagreeing commit that valueship principle is your ability to push back and say hey I think this is better based on the data that I have.
25:11.29
sharonpak5
But sure.
25:11.60
Michael Kang
But the whole team wants to go a different route. Are you going to agree to that or are you going to be. You know your own on another island by yourself trying to make your own decisions and fighting against the team. Yep.
25:22.65
sharonpak5
Gotcha So there's a fine line right? between the 2 It's like are you disagreeing and committing because you already have all the data and you've done the research so that you know that this decision even though you're disagreeing with the rest of your team has a cause right behind it where it's like. This is why we need to go in this direction So That's seen as like collaboration slash communication slash disagreeing commit versus the other ones like I just feel like this is the right decision. So we're gonna do this and that's what you don't want to see okay gotcha.
25:45.48
Michael Kang
Um, exactly? yeah, you don't want to say um, you don't want to go off feelings like when you're in when you're getting interviewed you want to have hard Data. So. I Think a lot of lot of people. They they don't have a lot of notes in front of them or they don't bring notes to the interview. But for the Behavioral Appor and this is I guess only for the tax side but behavioral portion I Always encourage my candidates write down all your examples highlight any like percentages or numbers or data so you can just look down at your notes and and just. You know, pop them out whenever whenever you you have like a moment to talk about them and oh yeah, go ahead? um.
26:20.58
sharonpak5
So so that's interesting I've never heard that before to bring in notes to your interview like is this only applying for virtual interviews or is this also applying for like real life interviews like would you bring in like postcards.
26:30.51
Michael Kang
M.
26:34.68
sharonpak5
Or like what's it called like Index cards with this like information on it because like this is very interesting.
26:40.46
Michael Kang
So fun fact for my interview at Amazon I had an interview bookcase that had my resume and then my notes and I wrote down some examples from my previous job where I had certain specific like data on like how I had an impact in a certain like project or report or whatever. Um.
26:56.36
sharonpak5
Aha.
26:56.87
Michael Kang
And I think a lot of the interviews at Amazon were just in general. We're very data-driven. So we we respect that we we think that's that's great and we think that um you're you're a prepared candidate if you bring notes so it's really important I think and almost imperative to your success to have those notes with you.
27:06.62
sharonpak5
Interesting.
27:16.29
Michael Kang
During the behavioral portion of the interview. Absolutely it was filled out the 3 are so fun fact too. I also interviewed 3 times at Amazon um, and they were all they were all passing interviews obviously so my first one was for my contractor interview.
27:18.70
sharonpak5
That's fascinating. So like you brought like a padfolio or something and that would like everything Interesting Wow I don't know this.
27:33.73
sharonpak5
And.
27:35.76
Michael Kang
It was each interview was 30 minutes long and I met with 3 people and they were all behavior questions I went after I was employed I went through a question bank that we have at Amazon and looked all the questions they asked Neith were the same ones. So obviously the amazonians they'll look at a question bank based on the leadership principle they have.
27:51.61
sharonpak5
Up.
27:53.75
Michael Kang
Um, and there'll be a bunch of questions like 5 5 to like 10 questions are linked to that leadership principle and they can choose whichever one they want to ask that they think would be a good question in that moment depending on what kind of the stories a candidate's telling. Um yeah, and then I took another so after after ah, being contracted for about six to nine months
27:57.14
sharonpak5
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, gotcha. Yeah.
28:13.64
Michael Kang
Have you do a full interview loop to become a full time employee at Amazon and then I I had to go through 3 There were roughly 45 minutes to an hour long interview so they're a but little bit longer. Um, obviously they ask more questions because they expect you to have even more data right? because you're an amazonian right? So it was.
28:17.55
sharonpak5
Um, of this.
28:32.20
sharonpak5
Um, the.
28:33.22
Michael Kang
Surprisingly it felt more challenging than just coming out from coming from the outside to interview within and then I had to interview again for my sourcing position. A lot of them were theoretical questions on top of more behavioral questions on like how would you do? How would you source in this situation. How would you interact with the hiring manager in this situation.
28:37.12
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.
28:42.28
sharonpak5
Okay.
28:52.57
Michael Kang
Because they want to see that my earns trust was high that I would be very collaborative and want to like you know be a team player for the most part.
28:53.24
sharonpak5
Yeah, yeah.
29:00.32
sharonpak5
Gotcha interesting. That's really good information and good to know. Um and so obviously you got all 3 positions right? because so guys now you know you should bring a patfolio or write notes on your computer when you interview and um.
29:07.54
Michael Kang
Yeah, yeah.
29:16.89
sharonpak5
A really great tip. Oh yeah.
29:18.41
Michael Kang
Yeah, absolutely um, you can even bring on like I know I know a lot of people like when they're virtually interviewing um to have like a second monitor with all the notes on there I usually tuggged me to do that. Um, and then another thing to build trust with your interviewer right on the spot right.
29:25.30
sharonpak5
Um, smart.
29:35.30
Michael Kang
Just let them know like hey I might look off screen because I have my notes for the behavioral portion. So I always tell my can It's like hey like let your interview know that they're gonna like that they're gonna like the fact that you're trying to build trust with them. Um, and that you're not like blatantly cheating or anything right.
29:37.52
sharonpak5
Good one.
29:50.44
sharonpak5
Um, okay I like that I Really really like that I think that's a really good. Yeah interesting I Love that? Um, okay, wait So going back a little bit here dialing it back a little bit.
29:52.71
Michael Kang
Yeah, overly communicate what you're doing. Yeah.
30:00.39
Michael Kang
Yeah, yeah.
30:04.23
sharonpak5
So if we have this perfect candidate flawless and ausly code right passes with flying colors. But maybe maybe he doesn't earn his interviewer's trust does he get the position or does he not get it the deal breaker.
30:10.68
Michael Kang
Yeah, so that's a deal breaker and I'd say I'd say 99% of the time. It's up to the bar razor which is they're kind of an elite interviewer. So a little bit Context. Our bar raiser is a non-biased interviewer. Outside of the team completely. So They're not a part of the team or the org or they may be kind of similar to the org. Whatever the case but they're invited to just interview the candidate and these interviewers are elite like they've done you know X amount interviews they've done so many of them and they're they're like. I Wanna say like professionally trained but they're they're the ones that have the final say at the end of the Interview. So if everyone.
30:50.35
sharonpak5
So when you say that they're not a part of the team that means that they're not like a part of the team that you would be working with but they're still at Amazon they're Amazon employees. Okay.
30:56.00
Michael Kang
Exactly oh yeah, absolutely yeah, their Amazon employees they do this in their free time because they just they like interviewing so much and that's kind of like 1 of their like fun hobbies. They do it also helps to get them promoted if they're looking for an extra thing to add to their portfolio.
31:05.20
sharonpak5
Okay.
31:11.69
sharonpak5
Cut up.
31:15.94
Michael Kang
But yeah these these interviewers they have the final say. Um and they're essentially like the judge in a way if if you're thinking about it from a courtroom perspective. So like everyone is saying Yes, yes yes for this candidate Obviously the hiring manager is like yes, let's get this candidate in I think they're great, but.
31:20.25
sharonpak5
That.
31:29.10
sharonpak5
Um.
31:32.85
Michael Kang
Let's say they didn't do so well in like certain aspects and the bar raiser can be like I think because their earns trust wasn't high or that that they their story that they told wasn't a big like team play story right? They they weren't really playing as a team. They were kind of doing their own thing and it was really risky I think because of that.
31:43.88
sharonpak5
And then Gotcha interest.
31:50.79
Michael Kang
We cannot bring this candidate to Amazon and they have the final say no matter what and it's I've seen these kind of kind kind of conversations like happen in debriefs. What we call them. And it's very awkward because everyone's like yes we should go for this candidate Everyone's really happy about it and like it sounds like it's gonna be a hire including the recruiter and then the bar raisor comes in It's just like no absolutely not. We can't and it just kills the mood. Everyone pushes back. There's some arguing sometimes what I want to call it arguing but there's like. Healthy conversation going through ah and um, yeah, a lot of times. Ah, yeah, 1 person could just completely like flip flip the switch in terms of like does the candidate get a higher and on it doesn't have to a bar range or sometimes it could be the interviewer too just being like I don't think they're good and they'll state their reasons. Why. And it'll change. Everyone's opinion. Oh they have they have ultimate veto power. Yeah there's no questions asked. Yeah.
32:42.42
sharonpak5
Okay, so the power of persuasion is strong but with the bar raiser. Would you say that's kind of like a supreme veto type of deal where it's like everyone that be like interesting. Okay and so going back to the interview process. So You do you just have like a phone screen and then you have like. Your panel interview type of deal or is it like what what does that look like for like.
33:04.70
Michael Kang
Yeah, so let me break down the structure so initially for software developers. It started off few years back doing phone interviews so you do 1 phone interview if you pass that you go to the final onsite which would be typically 4 interviewers that you would meet with and then. And then they would just tell you if you get the job or not except or decline the offer now we're trying to standardize it at least with the native b was where you take 1 online assessment and there there's multiple I guess there's multiple levels of passing um and initially like regular passing obviously just goes straight to the final virtual onsite interview. Um.
33:30.75
sharonpak5
Is.
33:42.80
Michael Kang
Or there's a couple you would go to like a manual code review where someone on the inside of Amazon will review the code because maybe the candidate finished it so quickly they thought they were cheating or the system thought they were cheating something like that right? There's some weird like situations or like maybe the code was like kind of strange in terms of like readability. So the the.
33:51.23
sharonpak5
Who.
34:01.31
Michael Kang
The system can't really understand it and they need someone on the outside to look at it to pass the interview pass the candidate to the next interview or not um or they'd obviously just not pass so there's there's all those situations. Um, but yeah, typically online assessment you go to the final virtual round which is again 4 4 interviewers.
34:10.50
sharonpak5
Um.
34:21.51
Michael Kang
And and just to just to specify on what each each of those 4 are it's going to be 1 technical portion as well as two behavioral ah 2 behavioral ah portions as well. So sorry, 2 leadership principles and they'll ask anywhere from 2 to 4 behavioral questions in each interview.
34:30.52
sharonpak5
Okay.
34:37.38
sharonpak5
Wait like per person.
34:41.19
Michael Kang
Per interview. So I'd say if it's an hour long half of it is spent doing some sort of technical question and the other half is spent answering anywhere from 2 to 4 behavioral questions based on leadership principles that each of the interviewers have.
34:53.58
sharonpak5
So every you get interviewed by each person for 1 hour long and so you have 4 people so it's a 4 hour long interview right with a break in between. Yeah.
34:59.56
Michael Kang
Yep. With a break in Between. It's not just a straight gauntlet of death.
35:08.36
sharonpak5
And so then you do an hour with each person and then there's a couple technical questions and then there's a couple of leadership principle based questions when you're interviewing with each person gotcha Interesting Very very interesting and so ah for your lead code session or those.
35:10.20
Michael Kang
Is it.
35:18.96
Michael Kang
Yep, that's correct. Okay.
35:27.84
sharonpak5
Questions you have to answer the coding part. Um, what language is that in or do you get to choose your whatever language you want.
35:36.74
Michael Kang
Yeah, so that's this is pretty fun I think I get this question a lot. Um, but we pretty much allow the candidate code in whatever language. They're comfortable in and I'd say 99% of the time. It's going to be either. It's got to be the Java Ah Python Ruby C plus plus sharp's really old, not a lot of people you see sharp anymore. But if they want they can they can even do Javascript which is um I guess it's both front end and backend. But yeah, we pretty much allow almost every language. Maybe not some of the newer ones but some of the ones that have been around for a while both for the online assessment. And for the virtual onset interview. Yeah.
36:14.67
sharonpak5
Gotcha Oh so they actually ask coding questions in the online or in the in person interview too.
36:19.48
Michael Kang
Oh absolutely. Yeah, they'll ask you some sort of question. That's it's gonna be somewhat like Le Cody I think for the most part it's gonna be like 80% Lee Cody but they're gonna try to like apply it to like an Amazon locker like how do you make this Amazon locker system work type of deal. But.
36:34.35
sharonpak5
Interesting.
36:38.12
Michael Kang
But yeah I think I think here's here's the deal though like we say that you can pretty much code in any language but the preference usually is does really only two. It's either Java or Python Yeah it I mean I would say it's highly dependent on the team that you join.
36:47.25
sharonpak5
Ah, okay, that's good to know so you guys say that but you guys really mean Java or python.
36:55.14
sharonpak5
Okay, and.
36:57.34
Michael Kang
And Amazon like 90% of Amazon uses Java and python's also like you know up there as well I wouldn't say it's the other 10% but just yeah I'm just throwing 1 numbers and words out there I'm that guy the interview that's just you know throwing throw all these random facts.
37:08.22
sharonpak5
Ah.
37:15.34
sharonpak5
Gotcha gotcha love light. Love that going directly against everything that you just told me okay, um, but Michael I just realized you never answered my question about the summary session of um resumes and the.
37:15.37
Michael Kang
Without any any basis for data. Oh yeah, Absolutely yeah, yeah.
37:28.53
Michael Kang
Um, oh yeah, oh well I thought okay so going back on that. Um, yeah I I look again 5 seconds that's all I need to tell if a resume is good or not.
37:32.33
sharonpak5
Page resumes.
37:44.82
sharonpak5
5 seconds that's not a lot of time.
37:46.16
Michael Kang
Um, so the summer summary section get that out of my face 2 pages get that out of my face. Let me just look at the first like literally I think it's so so important guys like if you're looking at your resume. What are the first like 3 lines that you add in terms of like. What you accomplished at your job your current workplace. What are your 3 biggest accomplishments put that on there put numbers put data put percentages. Whatever you can. That's gonna be the most important thing and that's what we're gonna look at initially and then that's what's gonna catch our eye to look at maybe the rest of the resume resume. Otherwise.
38:05.72
sharonpak5
What.
38:25.36
Michael Kang
If those if that's not something that's on there. Nothing like really pops out to me. It's next next I'm just scrolling past you instantly. It is no.
38:33.66
sharonpak5
That's brutal. So you're saying that for the first job position or whatever's on there. The first 3 bullet points are the most important.
38:39.92
Michael Kang
Absolutely I think yeah if you can start the first word. Essentially the first word. Whatever it may be whether that's some sort of like leadership skill like a spearheaded this project right? something like that if you can use a word like that. That's gonna catch my eye.
38:56.00
sharonpak5
Interesting. Okay, okay, good to know good to know the recruiters don't care. You got 5 seconds maybe 10 if you're lucky is what you're saying maybe 10
38:59.73
Michael Kang
Yeah, maybe 10 yeah no, but I mean there are some again every recruiter is different but I think the top performing recruiters in terms of how many people they are able to bring in and and bring in the top talent. They only look at. I don't think they even looked 5 seconds some people were so quick they maybe looked at the title and they looked at your experience too in terms of like where you worked right? That's another thing I look at like the dates and then the company that you worked for obviously for more tenured people. But if you're more new again. Those 3 bullet points I think are gonna be super important.
39:23.25
sharonpak5
Is.
39:35.18
sharonpak5
Gotcha okay, very right, interesting now. Another question I have for you is how do you feel about candidates applying for like a million positions at Amazon like you pull up their profile and see that they applied for like 20 jobs. Ah. But that reaction disowned me everything.
39:50.78
Michael Kang
Um, a great question. Another big question because I see that I I'm sorry I'm really sorry for anyone that you know may have been a great candidate but I completely skip them I don't have been I don't would take a second. Yeah I Just go next.
40:04.64
sharonpak5
Ah, really.
40:07.12
Michael Kang
Because that tells me that tells me that they're not getting interviews because they're applying to so many right? because if they're applying to so many and no one has reached reach back out to them. What does that tell me right? that Maybe they're not the right person for this for this job. Yeah, it's sad because like in a way like.
40:10.56
sharonpak5
M.
40:17.92
sharonpak5
Your bottom of the barrel you look desperate. You want any job. Not that job right.
40:26.46
Michael Kang
Maybe it's not desperation. Maybe it's hard work right? just to play Devil's advocate and flip it they're putting all this time and effort because they want a job and maybe they do have the skills necessary so I will say on some instances I have rechecked some of these people because I took the chance and looked at their resume.
40:34.25
sharonpak5
And.
40:45.30
Michael Kang
And I go Okay, they may they actually have some relevant right? They have some relevant information in their resume that shows that they may be a good fit for the job and then I've had some candidates that did get offers from that. So again, very dependent on the recruiter but every recruiter that I've talked to they will usually skip over these candidates like.
40:52.65
sharonpak5
Aha.
41:05.40
Michael Kang
Ah, not, they won't even take a second or or even a beat to look at them if they have like over 200 applications to like different positions within Amazon and they're not even like similar positions. They're just completely different which also is another really big red flag.
41:15.36
sharonpak5
Okay, so let's say they are similar positions right? like they're all similar positions. They're all for around the same level like level 1 level 2 Let's say whatever like whatever levels relevant to them. What is an acceptable number of positions you can apply for where you're like okay, not a red flag like this guy just wants a job within something that's similar or rolewise.
41:21.70
Michael Kang
Yeah, yeah.
41:32.17
Michael Kang
Be like 5 I'm gonna be really generous or 5 to 10
41:36.90
sharonpak5
Okay, so 5 to 10 is generous. What's conservative where you're like okay.
41:38.98
Michael Kang
Um, conservative I I personally in my mind 3 to 5 applications total yup, but the best way a passed him is kind of like like man if you're applying to more than 10 like that doesn't look that great for you.
41:45.56
sharonpak5
Ah, 3 to 5 okay, anything past 10 is a a no go.
41:58.67
Michael Kang
It doesn't it's not a good look overall too that you're applying to some if you're gonna do if you're gonna apply to more than ten ten roles within one company. Why not spend that time to apply to other companies as well or maybe I don't know maybe they did apply to like 100 roles like all the other companies too. But I think that just.
42:15.46
sharonpak5
They just want to work at Amazon they they really want to.
42:16.54
Michael Kang
Lessons your chances. So don't do that. Just don't do I'm sorry, don't do that. It's not good. A lot of recruiters will completely pass you by I'm serious. They will.
42:25.53
sharonpak5
Yeah, okay, so like what is a respectable amount of time between the different rules that you apply for so let's say they applied for over 10 But it's over the course of a year is that more respectable versus like 10 in like a month
42:39.71
Michael Kang
Oh yeah, that's fine I think yeah because you can see the dates as you're scrolling through how many roles they they applied for and I see like I see the minutes too I'm just like 5 23 5 twenty four five 24 by 25 I'm just like why this guy's just. You know you're just powering through and not even you know, really I don't know reading the job description. They're just seeing. Maybe they can get a big fish that way they're doing a volumes getting type of thing. Don't do that. It doesn't work. Um, don't spray don't pray I think yeah wait wait about a year I mean if you're not if you don't get anything back right.
43:04.84
sharonpak5
Um, okay, don't spray and don't pray don't spray and pray.
43:17.58
Michael Kang
Wait a year and then just just um, you know work hard with your job try to excel and it try to try to find projects that are meaningful. Try to find ways to be more impactful in your role and be a leader in your role That's gonna be That's gonna be the big. Ah big hitters that we look for in resumes.
43:27.98
sharonpak5
Um.
43:33.85
sharonpak5
Gotcha. So should you wait like six months before applying again if you don't hear back like what how long should you wait to hear back typically? Okay so play again after three months if you don't hear again.
43:38.98
Michael Kang
It's respectable. Yeah, six months I'd say that's pretty respectable. Maybe even three months honestly
43:48.55
sharonpak5
So if you don't hear back within three months apply again after three months essentially
43:52.41
Michael Kang
Yep, and then if you're a developer. Well here's the thing the market's changed a bit but let's say this is like a year or two years ago if if you're a developer and you have a somewhat respectable company in your name or. Let's say you have some relevant projects that you've potentially led and you kind of have that on your resume you will most likely not have to apply because you probably have already gotten 25 Amazon emails from other recruiters. So I'm saying like it may be different now and I know for a lot of college students. That's usually not the case. Um, but.
44:21.93
sharonpak5
And.
44:25.60
Michael Kang
If you're a college student. You can always just directly apply for Amazon student programs and it's it's kind of like an internship where it's not an internship. It's more like you take ah multiple online assessments. They're a little bit different than the ones you do at the industry. Um software developer level.
44:28.55
sharonpak5
What is that.
44:43.90
Michael Kang
So they're they're a little different in terms of they're a little easier I think you can do them a little quicker and there's like a gauntlet they have to get through and if you pass that you automatically get accepted into Amazon and you just start as a like a first year developer so it it guarantees you a role. So.
44:56.29
sharonpak5
Sounds like a pretty sweet gig.
45:01.42
Michael Kang
I Think for a lot of students. Um, that have like some projects that they've led or maybe they've like just built some software on their own just a side project that they want to want to do for fun? Um, and they have on their resume they should apply for student programs. Um, instead of like hoping to.
45:13.70
sharonpak5
What.
45:17.90
Michael Kang
You know hear from a recruiter just because they don't have that experience. They're probably not going to get a lot of people reaching out to them.
45:23.53
sharonpak5
Gotcha Okay, all good things to know, very very good things to know. Um and I guess I think those are a majority of my questions for you I think we we covered a lot of ground a lot of good things. A lot of good topics. Um.
45:32.45
Michael Kang
Here.
45:38.32
Michael Kang
Absolutely.
45:41.31
sharonpak5
From the basics to interviewing to even like student programs just now. Um and some really good interview tips. Um, and so maybe what we could close this out with is you can talk about since you've been with Amazon for a little while like.
45:43.64
Michael Kang
The come.
45:56.78
sharonpak5
Some of your favorite things because I think that Amazon has like a lot of um you hear a lot of good things and a lot of bad things right? It's very like polarizing on like both ends. So it's like what why did you stay at Amazon for as long as you did like what were your favorite things about Amazon.
46:03.85
Michael Kang
Um, oh yeah.
46:11.61
Michael Kang
Yeah I guess um including my contract at time I've stayed at Amazon for three point eight months years so three years eight months sorry I made that very confusing three years eight months yes 3 point 8 Um.
46:19.55
sharonpak5
I'm like 3 three point eight month years so yeah that's a pretty that's pretty long time.
46:28.33
Michael Kang
Yeah, that's extremely long tenure for Amazon kids I think a lot of but lot of them have like a one one and a half year turnover rate. So yeah I'm one of the ones that say for quite quite a while and I think um I have to I have to put a lot of credit onto the team that I was on um because a lot of them.
46:42.10
sharonpak5
Comes.
46:46.43
Michael Kang
And I said this in my Linkedin post to a lot of them are like friends and and family now like people that I really trust and I really enjoy working with um and that that I just you know I can see outside of work and talk about life with but I I think it depends on the team that you end up on I know this is like.
47:00.51
sharonpak5
And.
47:03.75
Michael Kang
It's kind of cliche cause it's a lot of corporations are like this you might end up on a great team. You might end up on a bad team. But the fun thing about Amazon this is this is a big pro for me is if let's say you're on a team for about a month or 2 and you're just not jiving with anyone. Maybe your manager is really not that great. Maybe. Maybe your peers are just like like jerks and they're just not fun to be with. You can always apply for a transfer and find a different role or find a different team that you want to transfer over to so. There's nothing wrong with doing that you just have to put in like a ticket to hr and most people most people can do that pretty easily There's no problem doing that so I feel like.
47:29.67
sharonpak5
Um.
47:37.30
sharonpak5
You could do within the first month. Yeah.
47:40.60
Michael Kang
Yeah I feel like people have that option and that's that's a big sell that I would use I used to say the candidates and they would love that option. They're like oh yeah, that's great because they would ask me the same question. You're asking me now like I hear a lot of interesting things about Amazon but but yeah I think um.
47:47.44
sharonpak5
Okay.
47:53.11
sharonpak5
Yeah, but but.
47:57.71
Michael Kang
You have a lot of power you you have the power to make the change that you want in your life in that role. So if you like something you can just go to hr or you can find a way to join a different team. You can have a coffee chat with another manager, you just have to look it up in the Amazon's directory like it's really easy to connect with anyone you want.
48:04.30
sharonpak5
Ah.
48:15.90
Michael Kang
Um, and there really are like limitless potentials like if you're if you're going to join Amazon um, just be ready for a lot of ambiguity and be ready to learn because it's it's not easy. It's gonna be really hard and they're going to. They're going to ask you to be really scrappy like you're not going to get a lot of information and they're going to throw you into the fire.
48:28.11
sharonpak5
And.
48:33.99
Michael Kang
And see you know see if you come out, you know, not burned or whatever I don't know I'm not the where I'm going with that metaphor. But essentially it's not easy right? but they want to see that you're gonna stay afloat if they can throw you in the water and you don't drown right? That's a bit bit of a better metaphor. So yeah I think that's.
48:40.94
sharonpak5
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
48:52.36
Michael Kang
Where it's a plus in the way where you will learn a lot in even a year or 2 That's why people move on from Amazon after a year they learn so much there and maybe it's it's that getting too hard to like get promoted because you have to do like even more work just to get that next level where it's honestly like you won't be getting paid that much more. But.
48:56.31
sharonpak5
And and.
49:11.11
Michael Kang
Maybe you'll get more stocks, etc, etc. But yeah, they can move from that role into any other company and they will excel incredibly at that company.
49:19.16
sharonpak5
Gotcha okay, you brought up Linkedin for a second there about your like Linkedin post and so that kind of just triggered another thing for me whereas like I know that you source through Linkedin sometimes like how do you source candidates through Linkedin I've always wondered this myself like I don't know how recruiters find me ever. Yeah.
49:20.85
Michael Kang
Yeah.
49:27.31
Michael Kang
Ah, yeah, um.
49:35.71
Michael Kang
Ah, so really cool. There's actually you can get Linkedin recruiter which is a separate program from the Linkedin website that you already have and it's a business account. You usually have to pay for it and it gives you a choice to like filter candidates and you can kind of find.
49:36.72
sharonpak5
Like how how does that work.
49:52.43
Michael Kang
Um, based on people's like job titles based on how many years they've been in the industry based on the school. They went to the location that they're in you can put in all these filters you can put in specific Keywords um using Boolean Search and Boolean is like using and or it's kind of a logic thing um to enhance your search and be really specific.
50:06.16
sharonpak5
And.
50:11.41
Michael Kang
Um, and by doing so it'll pull up a list of candidates 25 at a time where you just go page by page and go through and like put candidates into your pools which we can just filter ourselves.
50:22.21
sharonpak5
Gotcha and this is usually pull information a keyword wise from their bio is that more common or is that from wow.
50:26.68
Michael Kang
I O resume it pulls from everything on your profile. Yeah.
50:33.73
sharonpak5
And there's nothing. That's like what what is your favorite thing to look at like do you have a favorite where you're like I like reading bios more I like reading do bios even matter like I feel like a lot of people. They don't have bios on Linkedin. No.
50:42.31
Michael Kang
They don't so what would show up for me is it would show me their years of experience and what companies they worked at and what their titles were and what they did kind of like roughly what they did at the companies and that's all I would look at again. That's why I'm saying it's almost irrelevant for the resume because.
50:48.52
sharonpak5
Okay.
50:59.57
Michael Kang
I'm looking mostly at the experience and kind of what company they worked at previous just because I was I was working with more tenured software developers.
51:00.45
sharonpak5
Yeah, yeah.
51:07.33
sharonpak5
Gotcha so guys bios don't matter bios don't matter on your Linkedin they don't matter on your resume. No one cares apparently. Ah.
51:13.34
Michael Kang
Yeah, unfortunately not it's a waste of time. Yeah, no I think Linkedin Recruiter doesn't even show that it only shows because like it's giving us the view of not your profile but it literally just tells us your name.
51:16.28
sharonpak5
And apparently a waste of space too. Yeah.
51:32.65
Michael Kang
Your title. Maybe what school you went to currently what location you're in and then all your experiences that you have listed on there and your accomplishments. So again, you can put those accomplishments in there I think and that's what's going to show up so just be really specific, put your top 3 again at the very top of your biggest accomplishments.
51:36.77
sharonpak5
Interesting.
51:49.58
sharonpak5
Ah.
51:50.95
Michael Kang
Um, because that's what we look at and that's the initial thing we see.
51:53.76
sharonpak5
Gotcha well that's great insight? Um, really good to know. And yeah I think that kind of wraps up all the questions that I had for you Michael thank you so much for your time today and enlightening me on. Amazon's recruitment process I feel like I just like learned so much. Um, now if I want to become a cs developer I know that what I need to do. But.
52:13.20
Michael Kang
Um, it's great.
52:18.90
Michael Kang
Ah, yeah, you do. It's a lot of leak though. That's how they can yeah solving those puzzles.
52:22.82
sharonpak5
Ah, yeah, well thank you so much Michael you are the bust. Um, if people I don't know if we want to like plug you a little bit here but Michael actually streams um on Twitch and what is your username on Twitch and when do you stream.
52:30.30
Michael Kang
Look. Yeah, so it's twitch.tv/king75 and I'm currently in the process of completely revamping my schedule so you can probably find my schedule on my Twitch page. But yeah I stream on Twitch. And I'll probably have a portfolio for other things eventually as well. I also have an Instagram where ever doing plugs now I have an Instagram where I post food videos where I do like little muckbongs. Um, and my Instagram is King likes life.
53:07.51
sharonpak5
Love that and can people reach out to you if they have questions where you respond to them.
53:13.40
Michael Kang
Absolutely you you can you can reach out to me. You know on Instagram um, on Twitch if you want to join my stream subscribe. Whatever whatever you guys want to? yeah.
53:17.33
sharonpak5
Give him money give him money on twitch and maybe he will like come and subscribe to Michael but and he'll be able to answer all your other Amazon questions if we didn't cover them here already. So thank you so much. Michael and thank you for your time appreciate you. And have a gray rest of your night.
