The Dark Side of Deloitte Consulting

Fancy cars, lavish meals, and flying first class on your company’s dime sounds amazing! But is it too good to be true?  Find out in this week's episode of Tech Exploited where Erin walks us through his jouney working for Deloitte Consulting, why he left, and how he got into his current role as a technical project manager at IBM. 

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are solely my guest's and my own. They do not express the views or opinions of our employers.

If you enjoyed this episode let's connect:
Instagram
TikTok
LinkedIn

Transcript

00:01.20
sharonpak5
What's up guys. Welcome back to tech exploited I'm Sharon pack and today I am here with Aaron Chog who is currently working as a senior consultant at an Ibm sitterary. Right out of college. He landed a sweet gig at 1 of the big 4 consulting firms. The loitte consulting after graduating with the bachelor's in um, business information management from the University Of California Irvine he is an avid mountain man golfer photographer and dog dad to the cutest golden doodle. And so without further Ado Aaron thank you so much for agreeing to be on the show today. Yeah so for those of you guys who might not know Erin is my big bro but not by blood. Um.

00:39.65
Erin Cheong
Um, thanks for having me go be fun.

00:50.71
sharonpak5
So for those of you who are wondering what I mean it's kind of like a greek life thing which is really not that important. But what the people do want to know is Aaron tell me how you went from being the crazy party animal that you were to going to 1 of the most prestigious creme d la creme. Like companies ever at freaking theloy red out of college. Okay, okay, yeah, yeah.

01:15.20
Erin Cheong
See first off, not that big of a party animal I had fun I had fun. Um, but honestly you know to the listeners out there. It's definitely a mixture of you know. Preparation meets luck right? Um I was fortunate enough to be you know able to get into a major that was relatively competitive going into it. Um, it was a very small major so it was very tightknit a lot of us had some really good connections and all that. But while in school I aussie had no idea what I was doing basically from freshman year all the way to junior year. It's a lot of you know, experimenting things trying things out giving up on things. And it wasn't until you know? Ah I'm sure you can cut out the gaps and all that it wasn't until my internship between my junior year and senior year during that summer where I where I actually got a white collar internship at western digital. And you know that internship went well and gave me a taste of what corporates like and you know as one of the senior year I was like okay I kind of know what I want to do but I really didn't I knew you know give them my.

02:30.19
sharonpak5
Um.

02:36.90
sharonpak5
Um.

02:46.29
Erin Cheong
Goes in background with business information management which is a mix of computer science and business. A lot of that was applicable to you know corporate world whether it be the tech side or the business side or a little bit of both which is what the light was um.

03:01.48
sharonpak5
Are.

03:04.45
Erin Cheong
Going into Senior year. No idea what was going to do and came across the career fair and this is where a little bit of luck came into play during that career when the career fair was happening I was supposed to have class but that specific Professor. Ah. Who I still talk to sometimes to this day I Thank her for a lot of things. Ah, that's kind of you know, crafted my career and all that but she essentially canceled class and said as long as you can take a selfie of yourself at the career Fair. You can get. You know you can get credit for presence.

03:29.50
sharonpak5
Are.

03:42.93
Erin Cheong
In the class. So you know we went and came across deloit. 1 of the many companies there at the cour fair, you know in their booth and all that chatted with them. You know had the average experience. Nothing nothing to write home about and ah. You know they told me about the events they were having on campus. It included a day in life type of introduction. Brief overview. They had a case study event and then they also had some sort of social mixer I only went to the case I interviewed. Um.

04:19.38
sharonpak5
Um.

04:22.39
Erin Cheong
And ah, sorry oh we can we can jo back I only went to the case study workshop discussion hosted by Deloit and it it was a very interesting experience where you know they had probably around 10 to 12 ah, practitioners there and we had probably around like 12050 kids trying to either get internship or trying to you know, get a full-time job right? out of graduation etc. You know me, you know with like an okay gpa.

04:47.86
sharonpak5
Um, wow.

04:53.86
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

05:00.61
Erin Cheong
With you know, a couple decent internships but 0 extracurricular activities that align with you know, consulting white collar stuff stuff most of my jobs have been with you know, either food or retail or customer service or anything like that. So.

05:09.58
sharonpak5
Are.

05:20.54
Erin Cheong
Right? off the bat I already felt you know just out of the place I definitely felt like a lot of people on paper were way more qualified than I was um, but you know it's I'm already there I might as well try the case studies question that they shot over to us. Those were actually you know decently some were decently easy. Some were challenging. Um, but I think the key part of that was when they when we broke out into smaller groups which they had around like 1 or 2 practitioners per group chaperoning. Kind of listening in on how you collaborate with you know the other 10 students in your group. You know, making sure you're not too aggressive making sure you're not trying too hard at the same time making sure that you're actually contributing you know saying smart stuff.

06:39.23
Erin Cheong
Um, yeah, so you know going into the case study workshop session. We were basically met with. 15 or so practitioners ranging from analyst level all the way to manager level some some senior managers as well. They're essentially the recruiting team for you know u urabine's campus each campus as long as they're being targeted but deloit they have their own specific teams. Ah. I later learned this as I after I joined theloy because I was part of multiple campuses teams. So yeah, so we were met with around you know 1015 of them accompanied with around 100 to 120 students.

07:12.10
sharonpak5
Um, yeah, um.

07:25.11
Erin Cheong
Either trying to get an internship or trying to get a full time job after graduation, etc. Um, excuse me. So right off the bat I already felt a little bit underqualified. You know me coming in sure I had a couple internships.

07:35.24
sharonpak5
Are.

07:40.26
Erin Cheong
Ah, but very much unrelated. My internships were more sales and marketing geared even though it was in a corporate setting and I had 0 extracurricular activities that really aligned to Deloitte or consulting or you know. Heck consulting specifically if anything so going in there with a blank slate business for business information management major um, going going up competing with all these straighted kids people who are in consulting clubs people who are in business frats. All these.

08:01.98
sharonpak5
Um.

08:18.85
Erin Cheong
People with insane experiences on paper that there's no way I you know on paper There's no way I can compete with that. But that's okay I'm already there they're there. So it's it's a level playing field at that point because no one's looking at the paper when they're talking to you. So.

08:27.30
sharonpak5
Um, and.

08:34.90
sharonpak5
Um, schrner.

08:36.79
Erin Cheong
But present their cases. They ask questions they break you out into smaller groups. So you're in a group of around like 10 to 15 people with a chaperone so one or 2 practitioners is assigned to your group and they listen in. Ah, help facilitate things and honestly just see how you perform in that group setting when it comes to articulate. Absolutely yeah, how do you interact with other people how you present your thinking you know they would ask question and they want to see if you're.

08:55.88
sharonpak5
So like how you interact with like other people within the group. Okay.

09:09.68
Erin Cheong
Thinking abilities like your your logic right? If can you get from point a to point B to point C the way they want you to or at at the very least in the way that makes sense the correct or wrong and right or wrong answer you know that's a little bit of a lower priority. It's more so they want to see how you think.

09:19.74
sharonpak5
Are.

09:27.60
sharonpak5
Are.

09:29.27
Erin Cheong
So in that setting. Um I believe yeah, it was me and maybe 2 or 3 other people who were the main drivers of the conversation in that group if there's 1 thing I can do is to talk and um so you know during the solutioning. Time. Ah, the prac the practitioner who was with us and chaperoning us. They asked who wants to present the answers for the group we were able to pick 2 I believe for the whole group so out of 12 we had I think 3 or 4 people volunteer in including me. And it ended up being a rock paper scissors to see who presents so mind you, that's the only event that I've gone to at that point and that's really the only time that I was able to stand out is because I won the rock paper scissors game. So going back to little bit of luck is definitely there. Um, so you know I presented the group's answers went well enough that you know they called me back for an interview the next week and ah for those of you who don't know at at least when I was in college deloitte. Did. 2 rounds of interviews for college hires. First round is half case study half behavioral and then the second round which you hear back essentially the same day is another longer more realistic case study which you have to present your solution.

11:05.37
Erin Cheong
To a partner or a senior manager. So someone who is a little bit more high up someone who you know really knows how to criticize you and spot you whether you know you you have it or not etc. Um, not gonna lie that was probably the most prep I've ever done for interviews ever.

11:23.24
sharonpak5
Really.

11:24.56
Erin Cheong
And I managed to nail and a week after the second round interview I got the good news that they were extending me an offer right before Thanksgiving so and then the rest that was that.

11:36.82
sharonpak5
A lot to be thankful for. Ah yeah.

11:41.42
Erin Cheong
That was nice. It was definitely nice. You know, having an offer sitting on it and then being able to cruise through the rest of the school year knowing that there's it's there. Um, but yeah, so you know the rest is history. Got the job there. Stayed there for a couple years and now I'm at Ibm sub.

11:51.19
sharonpak5
Um, ah.

11:59.76
Erin Cheong
Subsidiary New desk. So yeah, happy to be here.

12:05.58
sharonpak5
Yeah I think that you have like a lot of really good points in your story. Um, one of them. That's really relatable is how you didn't just intern at a bunch of places you weren't a part of any big like consulting fraternities or whatnot Beforehand. And so you like worked at like a boba shop and whatnot right? And um I think that that's really relatable for a lot of college students where it's like we work jobs to make some money on the side while we're in school to pay for things. Um and not everyone has the opportunity.

12:33.60
Erin Cheong
Me.

12:38.80
sharonpak5
Go and ah intern from like freshman year all the way through the end and like be super involved in clubs and whatnot. Um, and so when you screen candidates now because I know that you talked a little bit about how you know how the deloitte process looks like from both sides right? because you were the one who is getting evaluated. And then you became the evaluator. Um, how do you view those types of experiences. Um because I'm sure you like as you know already because you are in that pool with all these super qualified candidates. How do you pick like those students from the sea of students.

12:57.63
Erin Cheong
There.

13:15.49
sharonpak5
When you go to places like Uci your Alma mater um and pick out like who you're going to interview based on their resume and their case that he's like what sticks out to you now.

13:23.69
Erin Cheong
Yeah, so after I joined de lloy and you know decided to join the recruitment team for college college campus recruiting you seeravan was of course a big one for me I wanted to go back to my alma mater. That's. You know where I spent some good 4 years of my life and met some really good people and I want to be able to get back in touch with you know my fellow anteaters so going back there being part of the recruitment team. There were 2 types of roles that I could have played. 1 was a little bit more backend with you know screen where I'm screening a little bit more interviews looking at cover letters and so on which I did at irvine and multiple schools and I was also part of. The face-to-face. You know, ground troops right? The actual team who who get stationed or not not stationed. Let me take that back who get assigned for certain days to to go to those college campuses to host events to talk to students to you know. Get an impression of you know who are the good candidates who are the right candidate so on. Um, and you know going back to my time there having been kind of one of the more underdog people who made it into.

14:37.77
sharonpak5
Are.

14:55.60
Erin Cheong
You know the cut I wasn't specifically targeting those people were trying to sort of like look for those people I was definitely keeping an eye out if I saw met someone who I'm like yeah like this person actually has a lot potential but they might not.

15:06.59
sharonpak5
Um.

15:14.45
Erin Cheong
You know, show it on paper then yeah, like that person you know will get will get a little ah a little bit of a pass for me but at the end of the day I was just an analyst at that point all I could do was give a green light and give a recommendation saying hey look this person very decent I can vouch for him. But.

15:21.22
sharonpak5
Are.

15:34.45
Erin Cheong
Also at the same time whenever I do vouch for people I also have to be very careful because that's also my my name on the line every time whether you know I'm a senior consultant right now or back and as an analyst or you know later on if I become a manager Senior manager. Whatever.

15:40.63
sharonpak5
Okay.

15:52.61
Erin Cheong
Anyone who I vouch for anyone who I put my name in for I'm putting my name in them ah with them as Well. So for those of you who are listening and have the opportunity to you know, be be on the recruitment side later on just remember that. That's that's pretty key because I've definitely seen. Some people tarnish their reputation and their name by vouching for someone who ended up not working out very well or had caused issues or anything like that. But you know to go back to your point right? Um pause.

16:30.90
Erin Cheong
Was a question again.

16:30.99
sharonpak5
Okay, so I think that you you've made a lot of really good Points. You're saying that you like to vouch for certain people that you think have really good qualities and a lot of good potential and so who are those people that are like underdogs that you see that have really good potential. Do you see it on their resume when you see that they have really good potential. Or do you see it when you're interviewing them and you're talking to them and watching their case studies like who is someone that has your potential.. That's an underdog.

16:57.62
Erin Cheong
Honestly, um, in the settings that I've been in especially when you know connecting with students talking to them hearing them articulate solutions answers and things like that a lot of times like those soft skills. Matters so much more than what's on paper sure your resume being very strong will always help you. However, if you don't have those soft skills if you cannot present your thinking from point a to point B to point C in the in the organized manner.

17:15.68
sharonpak5
Are.

17:34.50
Erin Cheong
You're not going to get your foot in the door like at least not with consulting like maybe a software engineer where you know you're ah you're expected to have a little bit more um, technical literacy and maybe not as much. Ah you know, social um literacy and and.

17:39.75
sharonpak5
Um, and.

17:54.31
Erin Cheong
And situations like that. But in consulting because we're always going to be client facing those soft skills. The way you talk the way you present yourself the way you articulate your answers. That's exactly what they're looking for and that's what I'm looking for as well like at that point. A lot of people's resumes I haven't seen yet. But I've spoken to them and by speaking to them. It gives me an impression as to. Okay, this person can carry themselves. Well they might not. They might not say they might not have the right answers all the time. But.

18:16.44
sharonpak5
Um, gotcha.

18:29.38
Erin Cheong
They're able to present their thinking very clearly to the point where you can see how they derive to their answers and that's one of the most important parts when you're talking to a recruiting team or anyone from the recruiting team in that sense as long as you're able to articulate yourself and. Be clear and concise that's that that's that's your foot in the door and then the rest you know when when you do get asked back for an interview. It's about prepping prepping and prepping and that's about it. It's at that point either You either. You have it or you don't.

18:55.80
sharonpak5
Gotcha.

19:00.99
sharonpak5
So how did you prep you said that this was the interview that you prep for the most in your life right? So like what did you do to prep for that interview.

19:10.12
Erin Cheong
Yeah, so Deloitte themselves on their college recruitment page excuse me. They have resources for case study interviews. They break them down by undergrad and grad level. So of course like they hire folks from undergrad and they hire folks from you know and me programs here and there so they have these resources where um, undergrad students can browse through undergrad specific questions. Of course it will be a little bit easier than you know the graduate. Level type questions. But I visit I looked at both a lot of like those different case studies. They're a little bit generic. You can find them. You know, not just hunt deloy I'm sure I'm I'm sure I used Mckinsey's I used Bcg's what so. All these different case study questions that you can get your hands on whether it's strategy or tech or you know all the other types of consulting topics and areas just you know it won't hurt you because at the end day. You're not training yourself to. Learn the material per se you're training yourself to understand. Okay, this is the correct answer that they suggested why is that the correct answer it's it's not about the what it's about the why because.

20:35.70
sharonpak5
Are.

20:41.87
Erin Cheong
Companies and firms. They will always be able to teach you the what like you're a fresh grad. You're not expected to know anything at all and that's okay, but going in they expect you to be able to ask the right questions be able to think for yourself and be able to be a go getter. To the point where you're able to learn the what by yourself with minimal support and minimal help. So that's essentially what I spent probably 4 hours a day um over those two three weeks

21:16.46
sharonpak5
Wow.

21:20.30
Erin Cheong
Um, just still like nailed down on you know, not just the what. But also the why.

21:25.22
sharonpak5
So it's like you're not memorizing the answers but you're kind of like training yourself to think in a different way to like just solve problems and to articulate those problems that you're solving in a way that makes sense. So even though your answer might not always be right at least they could follow your train of thought right? where it's like.

21:34.39
Erin Cheong
Correct.

21:44.96
sharonpak5
This is how he got to this answer and this is why he arrived at this conclusion and this is how he explained it to us. So.

21:50.30
Erin Cheong
Absolutely and having a friend there helped one of my best friends at the time still still is Kristen a huge shout out. She was essentially there for me the entire time as I was practicing and prepping and she was you know there. Asking me interview questions listening to my answers critiquing it and essentially you know helping me get to where I got to. So.

22:19.67
sharonpak5
So you're getting coached essentially by someone that was already at the Lo and they're helping you? um oh she was a fellow student. Okay.

22:22.39
Erin Cheong
No, no, no, no, no, she she was a fellow student. She was also she was a senior she was in my same major. Um, we're just like yeah we're we, We're really good friends and you know I asked her for huge favor and. Delivered.

22:41.59
sharonpak5
That's awesome I love lot but okay and so that was your crazy interview experience and your story of how you ended up at the loit and a little bit about like how other students if they want to go down a similar path. Um, you don't have to have the best. Dollar Gpa but you do have to have a minimum gpa right of what was Deloit's minimum I forgot what it was.

23:05.46
Erin Cheong
At the time it was it was 3 4 3 5 ish. Um, if you have it's a soft. It's a soft um minimum rate if everything just makes sense with you as a candidate.

23:08.86
sharonpak5
Ok.

23:22.95
Erin Cheong
Then they're they're willing to look past it I definitely know folks who started with me in the same hiring class who either you know, didn't go to a school where Deloitte hired from or just got a very subpar gpa. But because they were able to make that impression that worked out for them.

23:49.85
sharonpak5
How do you make an impression like that without getting recruited from the school and having a poor Gpa ah because you're saying that like that face-to-face interactions really important right? So like would they just like crash you see highs Career fairs. Like what was going on here like how they even get that I don't understand.

24:06.59
Erin Cheong
Yeah, yeah, so the specific person I have in mind he went to school in la but then was not in a target school and he basically looked at Ucla in Berkeley ah was not bekeley ucla and ah Usc's career fair website and checked when their career fairs are and just went and essentially from there on out. Um I think he made an impression and also got lucky where you know after the fact they.

24:27.85
sharonpak5
Um, wow.

24:42.71
Erin Cheong
Basically sat next to a partner at the bar nearby after the whole event so they were able to kind of connect there make an impression and things just worked out but you know these these are all kind of single or unique type experiences. But these things do exist like if. I Feel like I slip through the cracks a little bit and I see other people slip through the cracks a little bit and these are all within the same hiring class. It's definitely more common than you think.

25:02.17
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

25:08.25
sharonpak5
Yeah I think that's that shows a lot of like determination though right for you to do that research and you want to be at the lo and so I kind of said that as a joke like oh did you just like sneak into someone else's curve or but he actually Did. He should have good. He literally went to a whole different school career fair and sought out those opportunities right? and so it's like sure he quote unquote got lucky but it's like he was very intentional, right? and so he probably wouldn't be there if he didn't go and.

25:37.80
Erin Cheong
Yep, this.

25:47.89
sharonpak5
Like sneak to Cli's career and talked a little and I think that's really incredible and I'm sure that the recruit is out there. Um, they're impressed you and they're probably confused too right? They're like oh like that's how badly like you want this, you know like you want this so badly that you're willing to do all this extra research. Figure out when to come here and then come talk to us I think that's awesome.

26:05.78
Erin Cheong
Um, yeah, yeah I mean it shows it shows them the type of character. You know that person right? and.

26:11.52
sharonpak5
Are.

26:16.30
Erin Cheong
With a job like that I mean I'm sure we'll get into it but you know as an analyst of course there are things that you know excites you a lot with traveling with trying all these different new things ah exploring and just in general growing yourself professionally and personally. All things to look forward to but there's a cost to it. There is a sacrifice and there are definitely a lot of downsides that kind of balance out with all the good stuff right? It's not a perfect Job. You're far from a perfect job. But. If you have it and if you have it in you and you want bad.. It's definitely possible.

26:57.28
sharonpak5
So let's talk about that a little bit because when you first got that job I'm like wow that Aaron just like get a job or did he join a new fraternity. You know he's going to all these fancy rooftop bars paid for by the company. He's like flying first class he's getting picked up in a limousine. He's going to all these fancy dinners like you look like you were living the high life on the lloyd's dime and you're still reaping some of those benefits to to say like we went skiing not that long ago you're like I have status. From the lo you know there anymore. So like let's let's talk about your experience as a consultant. What were the good. What was the bad. You don't work there anymore. So what? let's let's talk about it.

27:51.80
Erin Cheong
Um, honestly. Yeah I mean to start off like it sounds corny and it sounds like Hr or pr trained me on this answer. But honestly the best part about deloy or I'm 100% sure working at a big four would be the same It's the people. The people make it so much better. Um, while like while anyone is there right? like ah I'm sure you can cut this part too. But um, the people you meet there of course like you're gonna meet a ton of people just my hiring class alone within the country had around 500 people and first week of being hired. They.

28:40.22
sharonpak5
Um, wow.

28:45.89
Erin Cheong
Deloyte sent all of us to their training compound facility is basically almost like a resort at that point in Texas for basically a week we get our intro to analyst training. Um, you know. Get wine then dined free Starbucks all all that stuff they they treat you they treat you right? once you get to the gate. Everything is paid for everything is just beautiful. Um, that's how they start off right? You're you're starting off on the high. And you know you start getting onto projects you get usually your first project is you know assigned or someone basically someone from their project from a project team goes through some sort of a list or roster checks their skill set whether they fit or none just. Basically get them onto the project. Usually your first project. You don't really have too much of a say so it's a little bit of a draw. Some people get on. You know the best project of their lives. Some people get on. You know, really crappy ones but I'll go into that in a second but you know of course when you're a consultant at the big 4 at a rich company. You're basically getting ah travel benefits you know hotel flight statuses you can expense a whole lot of stuff depending on the project of course. But there's all these things that.

30:19.45
Erin Cheong
It's a huge transition from being a college student who you know most of us were barely getting by and then kind of transitioning into this white collar life where a lot of people look up to you and you suddenly have this status so. There's there's definitely. Ah, piece of um I'm sure you can cut this out to I was that's less 10 less that something syndrome. Um, yeah.

30:52.35
sharonpak5
Imposter syndrome.

30:54.29
Erin Cheong
So There's definitely a piece of imposter syndrome at play in those situations because you definitely feel like Wow I'm just out of college I have no experience but I'm getting all these things paid for and I don't know if I belong but you know. Eventually you realize you've gone there for a reason you have what it takes to become successful. It's just a matter of way that you want to stick to it. Um, sure.

31:19.62
sharonpak5
Still let's talk about that impulster syndrome for a qua se so people talk about imposis syndrome all the time you're seeing that you had an impossis syndrome right? when you came out of college and you got your first job at the loit because you're like. I slipped through the cracks I was an underdog I don't know how I got here but blah blah blah right? Do you still feel like that now in your current role at not as much.

31:46.90
Erin Cheong
Definitely not as much., But yeah yeah I think I think it's natural right? Um I'm still I'm still in my twenty s just turned 27 not long ago I'm a senior consultant and you know despite all things you know despite Covid despite some hops here and there. I think I definitely made it a senior consultant faster than some a lot of other people as well. So Naturally, it comes back to when I self-re reflect is like do I Really deserve to be here. Do I have what it takes but as you're as.

32:19.61
sharonpak5
Are.

32:23.31
Erin Cheong
The day goes on. You realize you do and I realize yeah okay like I think I'm getting paid a fair wage for the work I'm doing and so on so it definitely still happens I'm I'm I'm sure like some forty year olds also have imposter syndrome like.

32:33.27
sharonpak5
Um, okay.

32:40.43
Erin Cheong
I don't think it's an h thing. It's just a matter of you know, being comfortable with your own abilities and all that and you know at times when especially when you're working in a large corporation who breaks in Tens of billions of dollars a year and part of that it can definitely feel like.

32:55.69
sharonpak5
Um, ah.

33:00.23
Erin Cheong
You're part of something so big that you might not even belong. But that's you know it's It's different amongst everyone else right? People feel imposster syndrome like through different ways because of different things other. But for me, you know it still happens but those years at Deloy Definitely like.

33:04.10
sharonpak5
Um, ah.

33:09.69
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

33:18.36
Erin Cheong
Especially when things are tough or sometimes when things are too easy. Yeah think things start to get a little bit wonky in your mind but you you'll learn. You basically learn how to deal with it because like 1 way or another you're going to have to make it through anyway.

33:21.92
sharonpak5
Are.

33:28.83
sharonpak5
Um, gotcha.

33:36.95
Erin Cheong
So.

33:37.45
sharonpak5
Gotcha and so going back to that transition between your college years where you're getting by like barely right? You're just barely getting by to being now at Delloit which is a super prestigious company where you're being traded like a King essentially is what it sounds like.

33:42.00
Erin Cheong
Um, and.

33:55.48
Erin Cheong
Um, was things like sure.

33:57.18
sharonpak5
Ah, ah, but it seems like I don't know that's that's what I saw I would get your snapchats I see your Instagram stories I'm like wow I don't have any of that you're driving around your brand new lexes I'm like wow.

34:03.95
Erin Cheong
But.

34:12.88
sharonpak5
And.

34:13.35
Erin Cheong
Yeah, but at at the same time right? like this is going off a little bit of a tangent by the same time like you also have to realize everything I post. It's the highlights I'm not gonna I'm not going to post about me working a 14 hour day and.

34:25.12
sharonpak5
Show.

34:33.27
Erin Cheong
Getting delayed in frickin Minneapolis for like 4 hours you know like um, that's not those are not things that I'm goingnna be posting about all the time because like first off Minnesota sucks. But um anyway I yeah, the.

34:46.72
sharonpak5
Yeah, fighting words fighting words.

34:52.57
Erin Cheong
But you know just kind of going back to the point right? like there's definitely a lot of highs and there love Lows Um, what you see might not be a full picture of what my actual experience is so you know to kind of to kind of go on right? um.

34:55.38
sharonpak5
Um, yeah, yeah.

35:11.38
Erin Cheong
My very first project. For example I got a pretty sweet end of the deal at the time I was living out in Orange County ah and I was traveling to Phoenix Arizona for work basically week and week out and you know during my time there I was able to stay in really really nice hotels. Because I was staying there during some less than peak months and then at times peak months where I stayed in slightly cheaper hotels right? just because just depends on the project budget and all that but it was a pretty long stable project. The project lasted around nine or ten months or so and you know during that time being my first project I was able to learn a lot especially on a slight project I was able to take ownership a lot of different things. Personal growth. Huge um.

35:57.30
sharonpak5
Are.

36:08.90
Erin Cheong
There there was so much growth in within that nine to ten months compared to you know the last like however, many years in college that I spent the real world experiences honestly, that's a huge plus. Of course you know with my coworkers with my other analysts.

36:21.57
sharonpak5
Are.

36:27.96
Erin Cheong
On the project. Of course we went out to bars. Of course we want clubs. Of course we had our fun but you also have to realize traveling week in week out staying in a hotel 3 4 nights a week away from home. That's not necessarily a lifestyle for everyone right. Um, there were people on my project team flying in from New York every week Phoenix New York phoenix New York every week right I've had projects where I was flying out to North Carolina from Orange County for three four months ah of of that time period week and week out.

36:50.90
sharonpak5
Um, well.

37:07.71
Erin Cheong
It's it's rough like sure you get the status you get the points to you know, make up for quote unquote but there definitely comes a point in time where your mental health can definitely suffer from long periods of traveling which.

37:22.69
sharonpak5
Are.

37:25.91
Erin Cheong
Don't see a lot of people talk about when they talk about these types of jobs Sure that's great. The moment you leave the house door the moment I left my house door. Everything was paid for uber to the airport flight food. Um.

37:28.17
sharonpak5
Are.

37:42.40
Erin Cheong
You know if anything everything from the hotel parking rental car at times I was definitely treating myself when I was you know on my client site but in a sense I justified it because. I realize I'm being plucked away from my home for 3 4 five days at a time and you know this is the way that the company is making it fair for me. So again, a lots of highs. Lots of lows I've definitely met.

38:10.85
sharonpak5
Are.

38:19.33
Erin Cheong
Really, really cool people I was able to become closer with a lot of my friends ah, who live wherever my clients are at right? whether it be phoenix whether it be so or whether it be um Texas.

38:28.64
sharonpak5
Are.

38:34.79
Erin Cheong
North Carolina all these places that I got to travel I wouldn't have gotten to travel there. Otherwise if I didn't get hired at Deloitte I'm very very grateful right? I think 2019 I visited like 10 or 12 new states I've never been to ever so you know that part of traveling that.

38:50.57
sharonpak5
Are.

38:53.56
Erin Cheong
Great and you know having your points being able to use those points for your own leisure travel great 100% high key recommend. However, there's a price to pay right? especially at deloy. Ah, a big 4 I'm sure Mckinsey Bcg Bain like they're even more intense at times similar to going into investment banking private equity things like that like these are all high paying lucrative jobs but there comes a price which is your time and.

39:26.47
sharonpak5
Are.

39:29.57
Erin Cheong
Most often and not your mental health as well. Great work life balance I think I was able to make it work. Um, there are times where I was there. There were times where I was working 14 hour days for like. 2 three months it it gets pretty grim right when you're like four weeks in five weeks in and you realize you have another seven weeks left it's grim it's It's some depressing stuff but you know in the sense. It's the grind. It's.

39:56.60
sharonpak5
Are.

40:07.30
Erin Cheong
Kind of prove to yourself whether you have it or not like whether you have the grit whether you have that mental strength to kind of grind it out and some people you know it's just not their thing and that's okay, right? Some people feel like that's a way to prove themselves. To you know, move up to grow to you know,? whatever reason that it is some people think that's the thing to do and that's okay and some people it's not cut out for them and they dip out and that's okay as Well. You know consulting is not for everyone. Um, and.

40:39.17
sharonpak5
Are.

40:43.72
Erin Cheong
There's definitely a lot of challenges that come to it right? So aside from just the long hours you have to realize consulting is basically customer service but just in the white collar like the other the other day I was just reading a piece and someone said consulting is the most.

40:54.39
sharonpak5
Are.

41:02.24
Erin Cheong
Blue Collar white collar job. You can have and and it's it's accurate right in the sense. So yeah, think think.

41:08.87
sharonpak5
What explain this to me I don't understand Yeah I'm I'm not a consultant so explain I Even honestly know what you do? So I Yeah okay.

41:19.95
Erin Cheong
Retail Customer Service. You're serving customers or serving clients and a lot of times they could be unreasonable a lot of times they could be upset a lot of times they're just you know they just don't know what they want. They don't know what they're doing. And that's exactly what consulting is you're there because excuse you're there because the company that you're working at was hired to be there to be experts on things and you're supposed to be able to navigate. Issues and obstacles with the customers and give them and satisfy them essentially satisfy their needs satisfy their desires and yet you know it's not your typical you know retail Job. Because they're paying a crap load of money but essentially it's the same kind of setting. You're there to please a customer if a customer wants you to get this done By. You know this date if your manager says it's feasible then it's feasible. Then you're busing your ass Your whole team is busting their ass to essentially achieve that goal. So It's the same as every workplace there are good managers. There are bad Managers. There are realistic goals Unrealistic goals. There are.

42:53.55
Erin Cheong
Um, unreasonable expectations and you know and everything in between so it's all about kind of navigating through it yourself figuring out what works for you figuring out what which managers you work well with. And try to try to essentially you know work with them in the long term within the firm. That's that's one of the best ways you can succeed in that setting. Um, but you know to kind of go back to your question Sure it seems like life is great. I mean life was pretty good I was learning a lot I was doing a lot I was always moving but it definitely takes a toll.

43:40.18
sharonpak5
Um, and I think that like that's really important to talk about because like for you, you're like an only child right? and ah you love traveling you love visiting new places you love meeting new people and so.

43:56.67
sharonpak5
From a distance. It looks like that would almost be like the perfect job for you like your dream come true type of Gig. Um, because you're constantly traveling constantly meeting new people and doing all these things that you really like but you're saying that because do you think that if you work like shorter days that it would have been like better. Or do you think it was just like the whole package that was what really took a toll on like your mental health like what do you think? really like did you in with this job because it's just so interesting since these are all things that I know you love right? yeah.

44:30.40
Erin Cheong
Yeah, in a sense in a sense. It's um, the grind Never really stops right? Get put on the project and of course I'm talking precovi right? Where traveling is a lot more prevalent.

44:37.11
sharonpak5
Um.

44:43.74
sharonpak5
Are.

44:46.20
Erin Cheong
Get on the project you're traveling almost week and week out you know just the traveling itself can get tiring especially if you're like big cities. Great New York Seattle Denver phoenix yeah like great experiences you got good food. You got good facilities. You have a lot of. Nice low extra currklers that you can you know, spend your time doing but what if your what if your client is in you know Kalamazoo Michigan right like what I think one of the top. Yeah, one of the things to do in Kalamazoo like stated under like.

45:10.34
sharonpak5
Um.

45:17.81
sharonpak5
I've been there.

45:24.48
Erin Cheong
So your town website is to visit the local cemetery like the local cemetery. Yeah, so you know yeah so for every good project. There's probably 2 or 3 projects that you really don't want to touch.

45:33.00
sharonpak5
Um, that's pretty bad. That's pretty.

45:42.41
Erin Cheong
But if you're at that analyst consultant level. You really don't have a choice if you know that's the only option or it's it bad or worse you pick 1 right? I remember yeah I remember there was a project where actually before I got on my first project.

45:52.85
sharonpak5
Like bottom of the barrel.

46:02.35
Erin Cheong
I was I was being fought over by 2 different projects one of which was the phoenix one and the other one was in Arkansas and you know I essentially told my career counselors like hey Phoenix please. Um, yeah, you think that. So yeah I mean so was traveling. It can definitely take a toll in the mental health. But of course the grind never stops as I said um, working there. There are definitely projects where it's much more chill.

46:24.13
sharonpak5
I.

46:38.71
sharonpak5
Are.

46:41.40
Erin Cheong
But I would say the grindier projects are a lot more common. Um I was basically working at minimum 9 hours a day for my entire time on that project and I mean even on the projects after that some were 14 some were 13

46:46.85
sharonpak5
Gotcha.

47:00.62
Erin Cheong
These long hours. Definitely don't help but I think the biggest thing to maintain or to reduce the burn on your you know personal well-being mental health and all that is to set healthy boundaries right? off the bat when I was on my project. I knew that I need to set boundaries I need to time block. It's like okay you know, maybe once 1 or 2 wo days a week if it's a ah if it's a lighter week I would make sure I would go do yoga I would make sure I go take a fitness class.

47:37.59
sharonpak5
Um.

47:39.99
Erin Cheong
To just unwind to think about something else and to kind of just get it all out of my system. Ah and then making sure that you know whatever I do have free time if I'm you know driving to the client's office or anything like that stay connected with friends catch them all with friends through a phone call. Um.

47:44.50
sharonpak5
Are.

47:59.29
Erin Cheong
And making sure I make healthy decisions because when you're on the road and traveling and your food and alcohol is paid for. It's very easy to just hit that slippery slope and just tumble so making sure you know I ate clean making sure.

48:10.21
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

48:17.59
Erin Cheong
I was working out and staying active definitely helped because I mean at the end they like working out endorphins good stuff. Um, or to you know, just kind of sluggy in the hotel bedroom not doing Jack you know, just that things that.

48:23.76
sharonpak5
Are.

48:31.40
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

48:36.95
Erin Cheong
Are very obvious to be indicators of or not ah contributors to good mental health or a good work life balance establish those right? because.

48:46.16
sharonpak5
Are.

48:52.25
Erin Cheong
As an analyst. It's very easy to fall into the trap where if someone is asking for something. You just want to go Yes I can do that because you want to prove yourself, but there comes a tipping point where you're.

49:00.85
sharonpak5
Are.

49:07.18
Erin Cheong
Where you're saying yes to too much because you're setting the expectation that this is exactly what you can take on for the time like and in the future. So correct correct. Yes, it's not sustainable. So what you really want to do is to establish those healthy boundaries.

49:16.35
sharonpak5
It's not sustainable is basically what you're saying okay.

49:26.56
Erin Cheong
And that going forward. They know that is ah okay, like this person is going to log off at 6 and unless it's like a drop dead emergency. They probably won't be back online until the morning and that's okay, you have to set those boundaries because if you don't.

49:40.80
sharonpak5
Are.

49:46.39
Erin Cheong
They're always going to take up more and more of your time until it's the norm.

49:49.63
sharonpak5
I Think that's really really good advice for people that are looking to go into consulting or want to know more about consulting in terms of talking about things that don't normally get discussed right? It's almost like the dark side of like the loit almost. Yeah.

50:07.59
Erin Cheong
Know yeah I mean dark honestly dark side of most big companies. Um I wouldn't single out just Deloitte right? like a lot of big four s a lot of.

50:14.52
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

50:19.97
Erin Cheong
You know quote unquote like Bcg Mckinsey Bain those firms they grind their analysts too. I mean there's a reason why the turnover rate is so high. Um I think the statistic is after two years fifty to 55% of your analyst starting class would have been like would have been gone so it's it's a high turnover rate and there's a reason for that. It's not for everyone but but the time that I so I did spend at deloy and the time that I'm spending currently at Ibm.

50:45.75
sharonpak5
Button.

50:56.47
Erin Cheong
These are all very valuable years. Um, and it's it's It's definitely much more fast paceced than your typical entry level. You know, marketing or white collar corporate job is definitely more space. You learn a lot more but it also takes up.

50:57.42
sharonpak5
Are.

51:11.40
sharonpak5
Um.

51:16.32
Erin Cheong
Little bit more of your time and energy and you know well-being and it's up to you to determine whether that is something you want to take on and make the sacrifice for.

51:30.79
sharonpak5
Really, really good advice and so at Ibm currently because you're still in a consulting role in a senior consulting role. Um, would you say that you're still like grinding like that every single day or would you say it's more chill because it's not a big 4 or like. Could you tell me a little bit more about your role now and how similar dissimilar it is.

51:50.80
Erin Cheong
Yeah, so I think it really just this is the most consultant answer I can give you it depends so you know even I was still at Deloitte I could be.

52:04.72
sharonpak5
Ah, okay.

52:10.33
Erin Cheong
I could be part of a practice whose projects are probably who might be a little bit less demanding all across the board like for example, um, for government related projects. There's a regulation that ah consultants contractors. Any employees. They cannot work more than 8 hours a day. So for those who are in that practice. You know they're basically capped out 8 hours a day so pros pros cons that's up to you to kind of you know, dive into and with my current gig. Um.

52:30.57
sharonpak5
Oh well.

52:48.97
Erin Cheong
You know, being a subsidiary of Ibm being a little bit more niche and the work that we are doing. Ah, it's definitely less of a grind like I'm not working 12 13 14 hour days like there's no expectations for that I was actually.

52:54.30
sharonpak5
Are.

53:07.89
Erin Cheong
Honestly to me when I did transition over to this firm I was very decently surprised as to what consulting could be like at a non firm. Um I'm not constantly grinding I'm not constantly trying to deliver.

53:18.43
sharonpak5
Um, a while.

53:27.77
Erin Cheong
Let me take a step back I'm not I'm not constantly trying to push one hundred and ten hundred and twenty percent in my effort because competition is so intense back at the big 4 so you know being in my current gig.

53:39.38
sharonpak5
Are.

53:45.13
Erin Cheong
It's definitely lot less of a grind. Um, it's It's a lot better for my mental health I have a much better work life balance I'm able to you know, get to know my um, my practice in my region a little bit better because we're a little bit smaller. In our practice. So I'm able to actually get to know one another rather than just being on like a first name basis like acquaintance type level relationship with most of my other coworkers and at the end they you know it's just one of those things where okay, do you think.

54:15.26
sharonpak5
Are.

54:23.53
Erin Cheong
A huge company is a better fit for you or do you think a smaller more tight Knit one is better for you. Um, and you know of course in in these different situations like it comes with different context right? like at Deloit. The clients we work with are usually fortune 50 fortune 100 whereas in a smaller practice like my current 1 we might reach out. We might be working closely with more medium sized businesses so different types of targets different types of customers. It just depends on you know what fits your type of work style and what you look for in the work you do.

55:09.84
sharonpak5
Gotcha and so I I've seen I've known you for many years now and I've seen that you progress pretty quickly in your career. Ah both at Deloitte and also at Ibm and so. What do you think you're like secret sauces to success and how um you were able to move up so quickly at both companies.

55:33.90
Erin Cheong
Embrace feedback. That's the biggest thing because at the end of the day. It's your managers and leadership who decides whether or not you get the raise whether or not you get a promotion whether or not you get put on.

55:48.15
sharonpak5
Are.

55:52.13
Erin Cheong
This or that project and things like that like ah of course it's corporate. So there's definitely a little bit of little bit of you know, sweet talking and and being a little bit more diplomatic with certain.

56:08.60
sharonpak5
Are.

56:11.34
Erin Cheong
Ass right? Um, and ah at the same time you got to mix it in with asserting yourself. So you know right? off the bat coming into this current job I'm in right now I knew i. Ah, knew I wanted to be part of you know, certain initiatives I wanted to be known as you know that guy like I love you know arvr and Ai as well. I want to be well versed in that situation. So.

56:30.89
sharonpak5
Are.

56:46.20
Erin Cheong
When people talk about me when people think of me, they're like oh yeah, Aaron like the guy who's very into arvr and Ai and stuff like that making a name for yourself in that sense and making yourself known. Um, that's one way for you know you to be. In the regular kind of conversation between like amongst leadership right? That's one way for you to out. Um, and at the same time you know, taking in feedback as I mentioned like your manager is if your manager is not giving you feedback as for feedback as you're getting feedback.

57:08.24
sharonpak5
Are.

57:23.71
Erin Cheong
Don't take it personally because I don't understand why any sorry let me take it I'm I'm getting too triggered. Um there you go back? so.

57:43.70
Erin Cheong
Yeah, so to go back to the point of you know, taking feedback if your manager if your manager doesn't give you regular feedback you know on like at least a monthly or quarterly at the very least quarterly or twice a quarter you need to have some sort of a check-in.

57:45.71
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

58:02.42
Erin Cheong
Talk about feedback talk about performance talk about you know where you're sitting. Um, what is next for you. What you have to do to get to the next level take its constructive criticism and if it's not as constructive as you want to be break it down with them.

58:10.78
sharonpak5
Are.

58:20.94
Erin Cheong
Ask them to break down for you if need be do a Step-by-step whatever it is when you get feedback incorporate it. Um, you might not agree with it. But that's another but that's another question right? like they' are always going to be conflicting things.

58:34.79
sharonpak5
Are.

58:41.20
Erin Cheong
Said to you and it's up to you to decide. You know what's right? And what's best, but it's all about you know, taking in that feedback and incorporating it to your day to day and demonstrating that you can learn and that you're teachable and that you are um, a quick learner especially and.

58:59.19
sharonpak5
Um, ah.

59:00.38
Erin Cheong
And if you are to fail fail fast because everyone messes up everyone fails but it's how you pick yourself up and how you ah you know, learn from your mistakes and apply those learning to your day-to-day. That's the key and that's essentially the way to climb up the corporate ladder per se.

59:23.92
sharonpak5
I Love that and I think that's really really great advice to constantly ask for feedback from your manager. Um, and so when you do get that feedback that you don't necessarily agree with right and let's say it's negative feedback that you don't agree with then what do you do in that case.

59:39.10
Erin Cheong
Was is an interview interview god um, ah feedback you don't agree with I think you have to first you have to first think about.

59:50.43
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

59:55.55
Erin Cheong
Why don't you agree with it right? Is it something that you don't agree with because it's your personal opinion that you just don't like to hear about it or you don't agree because it's objectively bad advice. Um more often than not.

59:57.89
sharonpak5
Huh.

01:00:06.69
sharonpak5
Are.

01:00:15.93
Erin Cheong
It's the former more often than not I see people get a little bit too defensive took it a little bit too personal and just disregarded the feedback in general. Um, and of course if it's actually and.

01:00:28.20
sharonpak5
Are.

01:00:35.20
Erin Cheong
Objectively bad advice or bad feedback. That's given to you if you are going to speak up about it. Make sure you know what you're talking about because 9 times out of 10

01:00:48.90
sharonpak5
Ah.

01:00:52.77
Erin Cheong
If you're a consultant level or analyst level and your manager has been in the game for like 101520 years like they know what they're talking about like sure there are going to be managers who are not so great at managing people.

01:01:12.50
sharonpak5
Um, and.

01:01:12.26
Erin Cheong
But generally these people have more experience than you. They've seen more things than you and ah if you are to kind of you know, go against what they say or speak up against what they say make sure you know what you are talking about and make sure that you.

01:01:30.47
sharonpak5
Are.

01:01:31.22
Erin Cheong
Ah, right? because that's to kind of bite yourself in the butt if you kind of just you know, go like no, you're wrong I don't know what's right though, you know so you can back yourself up Otherwise. You know that that's ah, that's a career Killer at there.

01:01:51.80
sharonpak5
Gotcha I Think that's really great advice. Not just for consulting. But for any career profession where a lot of times your managers are a lot more experienced than you and they might not give you the feedback that you want to hear so like you said don't take it personally. Maybe like take some time to cool off think about it reflect about it. Are they right? Maybe your feelings are hurt because you thought you're doing a good job but you know you're not doing as great as a job as you could be doing according to your managers. So ask them how you could improve if they don't think that you're performing at the level that they want you to.

01:02:21.99
Erin Cheong
Exactly.

01:02:24.20
sharonpak5
Um, really really good advice and so I guess we'll just close this one out with for current college students who want to end up in a consulting role once they graduate. Yeah, what the little advice Do you have for them. What should they be doing.

01:02:40.56
Erin Cheong
Oh.

01:02:43.40
sharonpak5
They want to be just like ether maybe not just like you maybe not just like you but you know they want to get into the big companies they want to do tech consulting. They want to work in a RVR virtual realities super cool right now you know meta just like changed their whole thing.

01:02:48.12
Erin Cheong
Um, don't be don't be don't be like me. Yeah.

01:03:02.63
sharonpak5
Um, so that they can support stuff like that. So what? what should they be doing.

01:03:06.98
Erin Cheong
Yeah I mean I think this ah this applies to a little bit of a broader scale not just consulting. But if you are interested in something if you truly want something.

01:03:14.70
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

01:03:24.27
Erin Cheong
Prepare yourself. So for example, if it's you know, augmented reality virtual reality make sure you're in the news like make sure you're reading papers make sure you're make sure you're not just consuming a single single source of.

01:03:26.30
sharonpak5
Um.

01:03:43.33
Erin Cheong
Media um, make sure you're looking at how these different technologies are being applied in so many different ways so we can talk about them as if we actually know these things same goes with consulting like 1 of the things that really made me stand out. From the interview was the amount of time I've prepped for the case like interviews I was basically I was basically able to break down a lot of different problems thrown at me. Um in this in a way that I know. Interviews would be ah interviewers will be able to digest what I say like no matter what it is like they can throw me. They can throw me a a question that's completely non business related and I can break it down for them like that's that's how I was able to train myself. To answer any question that I throw at me so depending on the situation depending on the job you want depending on you know the technology that you want to get into make sure that you're not just being one-sided on that topic or that area.

01:04:51.26
sharonpak5
Are.

01:04:55.91
Erin Cheong
Make sure that you know it fully and holistically so that if someone throws your curve ball. You can still navigate yourself through these difficult Situations. You're not, You're not just.. You're not just pigeonholing yourself into this one little thing that you're really good at because someone throws your curveball. You're like I don't know what I'm going to do so? Um, yeah, if you you know if you are a college student and you do want to go into consulting.

01:05:20.52
sharonpak5
Um, ah.

01:05:31.11
Erin Cheong
Extracurulla -wise 100% consulting clubs do help um, but you know there's 2 there's 2 facets right? There's on paper and then there's you as a person on paper. You definitely want to be as polished as you can. Even if you don't have internships even if you don't have any relevant experiences. There are so many ways for you to tweak your resumes so that so that the jobs you're applying for um, your resume basically fits that right? and then.

01:06:05.51
sharonpak5
Are.

01:06:08.35
Erin Cheong
As a person make sure you're confident in you know talking make sure you're able to ah present be be comfortable presenting in class right? like all ah all of the business classes I have taken that you see Irvine. The biggest thing honestly, it's not about the theories is not about the you know freaking management 1 ah 2 2 ah 2 type materials. The most important skill I've actually learned from those classes was presentation skills like.

01:06:44.34
sharonpak5
Are.

01:06:47.23
Erin Cheong
Almost every single business class. We probably did 3 or 4 presentations some in groups some individually and you learn how to dress and learn how to stand you learn how to talk you learn how to put your slides together. All these things help you talk help you communicate? um. Like I don't know even just waiting for an elevator with a stranger if you can strike up a conversation with them and have a friendly conversation and talk about just anything like that's better than not talking at all. It sounds weird but like you know back in high school i. No way in hell I would talk to some random strangers about randomish crap whereas now whereas now you know I can I can go skiing and I would talk to like 5 different strangers.

01:07:30.95
sharonpak5
Yeah, yeah.

01:07:42.70
Erin Cheong
On the Ski lift at the same time and just talk their ears off, it's it's that type of day to day that you have to incorporate incorporate into your your life in order for you to be the person you want to be and get that job. You want to get right.

01:07:46.57
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

01:07:58.43
sharonpak5
So you're saying to just experiment by talking to random strangers like go into an elevator say what's up to the guy in the elevator strike up a conversation see what happens like low risk.

01:08:02.50
Erin Cheong
So.

01:08:10.92
Erin Cheong
Yeah, yeah, that's just suit that That's just to like try things out right? like who knows who you're going to talk to like who knows we're going to get sometimes a conversation will go South Sometimes a conversation will go well and that essentially is free practice.

01:08:23.92
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

01:08:30.70
Erin Cheong
To anyone you talk to down the line like I'm I'm sure you've also kind of seen this but and through Covid a lot of people kind of lost their social skills. Their communication skills.

01:08:33.17
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

01:08:41.14
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

01:08:49.29
Erin Cheong
They don't talk to people like I get it I work from home. You know I don't talk to a lot of people usually and I even I even realized that I've lost an edge when it comes to connect people and talking to people. Yeah.

01:08:52.15
sharonpak5
Um.

01:09:03.93
sharonpak5
Really, you're like 1 of the most social people I know that's crazy. Yeah.

01:09:08.67
Erin Cheong
Because ah yeah is because I seek out these interactions but the thing is like during Covid like I think the first presentation I made after like a while I was just like Holy crap I. I Really suck our presentations right Now. So it just it just takes a lot of practice and a lot of these practice. It's free practice when you're talking to random strangers out in the wild. So hey nice shoes where'd you get those.

01:09:37.20
sharonpak5
How do you strike up a conversation with a random stranger out in the wild.

01:09:45.30
Erin Cheong
And stuff like that you know yeah I mean you just gotta talk to everyone and like like there there shouldn't be anyone who you are uncomfortable approaching or talking to like I think this applies to most jobs in corporate America like. If you want to make a good connection with someone you have to talk to them and you got to be good at talking and you got to be quick on your feet and you got to be able to improvise and all these different things and talk to random people on the streets and at the bars or whatever. It's just free practice.

01:10:05.30
sharonpak5
Um, this is yeah.

01:10:20.99
sharonpak5
Okay, yeah, great advice I Love it like my and this is not just like advice that you're just saying I see you live out. You know like I've known you for so long and I'm like you do this all the time or I'm just like okay.

01:10:34.62
Erin Cheong
Yeah, because not everyone not everyone has the luxury to you know, join a frat join a club do this and that that's like traditionally expected of them to.

01:10:46.10
sharonpak5
Um, sure.

01:10:53.57
sharonpak5
Yeah.

01:10:54.10
Erin Cheong
Strengthen their resume. Not everyone has the luxury to you know do certain internships whereas you know like I like to be a little more practical where there are like. You're going to come across people whether it's in class whether you're on campus or whatever like there's going to be people that's free practice like that's literally the most free thing that you can do just talk to them. Yeah.

01:11:12.15
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

01:11:17.35
sharonpak5
I like your headband I like your shoes. Yeah, where'd you get it. That's awesome i. Love it? Yeah, well thank you so much Aaron I burned a ton um from you right now. Actually I was like wow this is actually. Really great advice like here you are all here per usual. Um.

01:11:40.55
Erin Cheong
We yes I actually give good advice huh.

01:11:50.58
sharonpak5
I Mean you've given both good and bad in all the years that I've known you so this is definitely one of the much better ones that you've given and I think that it's really applicable. Um, your story is really Applicable. It's really inspiring for a lot of students that are currently in school. They might not know what they want to do right now either And So. All of the stuff that you're saying like anyone go do right Now. Um, and so yeah, thank you so much for your time I appreciate you and that's it. Yeah yeah, Thank you.

01:12:16.55
Erin Cheong
Now Thanks for having me this fun.