Switching Majors and Building Rockets!

This week’s episode is a heavy hitter. We discuss the pros and cons of switching majors, post-grad depression, navigating your first job out of college, and how to overcome rejection. Michael initially majored in Aerospace Engineering, but quickly learned the major wasn't a good fit. Despite switching majors, he currently works as a rocket engineer and generously shares how to overcome any obstacles life throws in your direction. 

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are solely my guest's and my own. They do not express the views or opinions of our employers.

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Transcript

00:00.00
sharonpak5
Hi guys welcome to another episode of tech exploited today I have my good friend Michael Proudnikov here with me. He grew up in New York and he attended the university of Michigan for his bachelor's in mechanical engineering. Michael does some pretty crazy things for his hobbies on his free time. His favorite being back countryry skiing for those of you guys don't who don't know what back country skiing is he literally climbs up a mountain with his skis on his back and all his other gear and he skis down the mountain. There's no chairless. No nothing. He. Purposely chooses to literally hike up the mountain. He also enjoys um going mountain biking and he was a professional pole volter when he was in high school all very unique hobbies and sports that most people have never heard of before um he was also a part of. His university's um, ah, aeronautical science association or their rocketry club called masssa and he is now working with me at blue origin to build our befourengine. So yeah, Michael welcome to the show. Super happy to have you here today.

01:13.41
Michael Proudnikov
Hi Yeah, super happy to be on really excited to talk about my experience and everything and just to clarify when I go back country skiing I can go up and down as many times as my legs can take it stop just once? oh ah, depending on.

01:23.58
sharonpak5
How many is that Normally oh.

01:30.50
Michael Proudnikov
The time of season and how fit I am anywhere from 2 to 3 times then the weather impacts it as well. Sometimes.

01:37.18
sharonpak5
That's crazy I can't even like I struggle walking from the bottom of this like the hill at the Ski resort to the lift. So like yeah.

01:45.12
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah.

01:48.37
sharonpak5
I Can't imagine walking all the way up the mountain. That's actually like insane. You're insane. Yeah yeah, yeah.

01:52.21
Michael Proudnikov
yeah honest yeah I honestly couldn't either until I tried it and once I got used to that feeling I was able to work my way from just going one run a day to doing more up to 3 4 or 5 then 7 once that was pretty crazy.

02:10.60
sharonpak5
Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah I was like just like knowing you as a person I feel like you really enjoy like really hard and extreme things like.

02:11.74
Michael Proudnikov
But yeah, practice makes perfect so to speak if.

02:22.30
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah.

02:24.40
sharonpak5
From your work to your school to just like everything I'm just like I feel like you enjoy doing these really hard things. Um, and so that being said like what made you want to go into a mechanical engineering at the university of Michigan.

02:39.40
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, so do you want to know about how I got into that school or how I picked my major or just kind of a general story.

02:44.27
sharonpak5
How do you like pick your major because like mechanical engineering is not an easy major right? No one can say like engineering is an easy major I'm a do that like that's what I want to do right? So was it just because you enjoy all these hard things growing up and you're like yeah that sounds cool and I want to do that or.

02:51.82
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, yeah.

03:04.40
sharonpak5
What was kind of how'd you get there? yeah.

03:04.64
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, so throughout high school I had realized that I wanted to be an engineer and because I liked the problem solving aspect I like that it blends math and science and those are my favorite subjects in elementary and middle school so it kind of targeted that way towards my high school education.

03:21.35
sharonpak5
I.

03:23.20
Michael Proudnikov
And I was for like good three and a half years trying to figure out what major I wanted to go into so I could figure out what university I should look into and so there was one day where I had a physics class and we were building little trust bridges. So it was like an engineering design challenge and so.

03:34.45
sharonpak5
Ah.

03:42.47
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

03:43.60
Michael Proudnikov
With ah little balsa wood sticks and and wood glue and everything that classic one? Yeah so we were just workshoping. We had our designs ready. We're building the bridges and then my teacher threw up the test launch in 142 of the orion spacecraft. So the precursor to the recent.

03:59.33
sharonpak5
Huh.

04:00.95
Michael Proudnikov
AhSTs one mission that launched and I just was so fascinated watching that just watching that mission profile I just like it finished a little early so I didn't take my eyes off the screen I was like you know what? Yeah, let's do that. Let's go rocket science and so this yeah.

04:04.20
sharonpak5
Ah.

04:17.66
sharonpak5
That's how you decided like to do Rocket science. Wow. Okay.

04:20.41
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah I Yeah I had no better answer and I thought it was really cool. So I figured that it's probably hard and I could make the it's not Rocket Science joke. So this all big positives all around.

04:39.16
sharonpak5
Ah, so since you knew from a really early age that you wanted to do Rocket science stuff when you grew up. Um, why did you decide to major in mechanical engineering instead of aerospace engineering. Yeah.

04:40.23
Michael Proudnikov
Are.

04:49.67
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, it's a great question and originally I actually had when I was searching for colleges I was looking specifically for a woman with a good aerospace engineering program because rockets to me at Aerospace engineering and from a few people that I talked to while I was still in high school sort of like.

05:00.63
sharonpak5
Um.

05:08.47
Michael Proudnikov
Mentor figures in engineering. Um I figured okay, we'll go. We'll go target full Airospace and so I did that and I became involved with the rocketry club at Michigan and the way I picked that was the um.

05:11.34
sharonpak5
Um.

05:24.56
sharonpak5
Um.

05:27.37
Michael Proudnikov
Actually that was one of the big factors of me picking the University of Michigan to begin with since they had a lot of student design build test design build fly design build drive teams and there was like a super great ecosystem for that. So I really wanted to take advantage of the hands on learning that you can get there as an extracurricular part. Um.

05:38.80
sharonpak5
Ah.

05:46.45
sharonpak5
Ah, the.

05:46.93
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, so that that really tipped the scales in favor of Michigan and for anyone I highly recommend if you're looking into a program to look for ones that look for schools that offer those types of extracurricular activities I think that was the single most important factor in in getting employed for me personally.

05:51.85
sharonpak5
Ah.

06:01.60
sharonpak5
Ah, her.

06:04.79
sharonpak5
Yeah, definitely because you get a lot of hands on experience That's applicable right? to like real job stuff. Yeah, for sure.

06:06.50
Michael Proudnikov
Um, yeah, exactly yeah like some of the projects I was doing for that team I'm happy to talk more about it If you're if you're curious, but it rivaled what I do for work as in terms of the the scope. Maybe maybe not the Grand scope and so to speak. But oh the project was like it Definitely much smaller budget. Yeah we we relied on we realized heavily on donations and stipends from the school so we had to get part about how we used our materials where we sourced and.

06:26.87
sharonpak5
Yeah, sure smaller budget. Ah.

06:38.72
sharonpak5
Ah.

06:43.95
Michael Proudnikov
How many things we built and it did teach us how to do a lot of care for tools and parts and everything. So anyway, this whole bit of a sidebar sure. Yeah.

06:51.79
sharonpak5
So So wait so going back? Um, So that's how you entered the school as like mechanical right? But then why didn't you major in aerospace if you knew that you like love the rocketry stuff and you were like oh the student programs. They offer rocketry clubs and I want to join those. But you purposely chose mechanical instead of aerospace even though you knew that you wanted to do all the Rocket stuff.

07:12.68
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, so I yeah I got a little sidetracked with talking about the team but the I originally started out in aerospace and so I was yeah I did so I elected aerospace major as soon as they allowed us to pick Majors which.

07:23.31
sharonpak5
I did.

07:30.73
Michael Proudnikov
In my case was the end of freshman or halfway through freshman year is when it opened up for us to freely pick our majors and for I know some schools have like certain bars that you have to clear. But for the university of Michigan it was just pick your major some programs have Gpa cutoffs because they're competitive. But for the most part it's open choice.

07:34.83
sharonpak5
Ah.

07:48.21
sharonpak5
Ah.

07:49.30
Michael Proudnikov
Um, so I signed up for aerospace I started taking aerospace classes and then in the middle of my sophomore year I actually had a a friend working on the team that was a grad student in manufacturing engineering who had also been with the club all the years he was in school and.

08:06.32
sharonpak5
Ah, ah.

08:07.30
Michael Proudnikov
Um, he was listening to me talk about the machine shop work I wanted to do and the structural design that I was working on at the time and so he listened to me talk and present my particular project and he was like you sure you're not mechanical engineering or something like that so he put that idea into my head and then I was I kept thinking about it.

08:14.18
sharonpak5
Ah.

08:22.60
sharonpak5
Ha Ah ha.

08:27.29
Michael Proudnikov
And in my next semester I sign up for a course load that is transferable to both classes or I guess both majors So should I decide to switch halfway through I wouldn't um, push myself back for either degree and lo and behold I decided that yeah after thinking about it mechanical engineering has.

08:32.88
sharonpak5
Ha Ah ha.

08:41.00
sharonpak5
Ah.

08:46.10
Michael Proudnikov
A lot of the hands-on work that I really enjoyed um and all the airerslace classes I've taken so far have only caused me misery and pain. Um, yeah, yeah I Yeah I personally struggle a lot with the more theoretical side when I can't get a hands on visual.

08:49.34
sharonpak5
Ah.

08:53.56
sharonpak5
I.

09:03.80
sharonpak5
Um.

09:05.85
Michael Proudnikov
It's why I'm a manufacturing engineer now when we were doing these fluids classes and these space trajectory classes like guidance navigation control type stuff I was just I struggled to grasp my head around it then but I really enjoyed the.

09:06.95
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

09:15.57
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

09:24.12
Michael Proudnikov
Machining workage in the shop so I would actually operate the machines and make the parts myself and so that really tipped the scales in favor of mechanical engineering which turns out that I'm working um side by side with people that have aerospace degrees and are working as mechanical or sorry manufacturing engineers.

09:29.27
sharonpak5
Um, gotcha.

09:42.25
sharonpak5
Yeah.

09:44.20
Michael Proudnikov
Um, the programs tend to be fairly similar at their course but the specialties are like specialization is a lot more specific in in some aerospace programs or as mechanical engineering they still keep it relatively general at least that's how it was on Michigan and.

09:55.11
sharonpak5
Sure.

10:00.54
sharonpak5
Yeah I was the same on my school too.

10:03.91
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah there so we are able to kind of specialize a little bit but and we still have a good foundation for any type of work is what they told me in school.

10:12.63
sharonpak5
Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, do you feel like because I'm assuming you still had friends that sticked out or stuck it out with aerospace engineering instead of ah mechanical engineering because my school actually didn't have an aerospace degree. We only had mechanical engineering degrees. Yeah Aerospace wasn't even an option.

10:23.71
Michael Proudnikov
Oh interesting. Yeah.

10:30.30
sharonpak5
Um, so I don't know too many people that graduated specifically from or is that possible I don't know anyone from my school that graduated with an aerospace degree I know people from other schools that graduated with an aerospace degree but not my school right.

10:35.24
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, exactly.

10:43.20
Michael Proudnikov
Um, right.

10:45.19
sharonpak5
And so for you being able to see both and people that graduated with an aerospace degree and people that graduated with a mechanical engineering degree. Do you feel like there are certain areas that people that graduated with an aerospace degree like only they can work in those fields and you need an aerospace degree to work in those fields after you graduate.

11:02.20
Michael Proudnikov
If.

11:04.31
sharonpak5
Or is it kind of like a level playing ground between mechanical engineering and aerospace engineering when you graduate from the same school to working whatever job you want.

11:11.13
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, no, that's a great question in my experience. It's the very theoretical conceptual work that Aerospace Engineers thrive in I can speak to my program specifically which focused the.

11:24.40
sharonpak5
Ah.

11:27.77
Michael Proudnikov
Michigan has a long history of aeronautical engineering specifically so that's mostly planes versus rockets. So some of the folks that I went to school with that then went on to do airspace stuff. They tend to work in projects that categorize flight paths for.

11:35.43
sharonpak5
Ah, ah.

11:45.32
Michael Proudnikov
Um, Spacecraft or rockets so they'll be doing a lot of orbital mechanics stuff or aerodynamics designs for lift and drag surfaces on planes or cars I know some people that have gone into the auto industry with an aerospace degree working specifically on aerodynamic modeling.

11:48.32
sharonpak5
Ah.

12:05.28
Michael Proudnikov
Um, but I think what aerospace gets to is a strong foundation in the theoretical Fluids world especially for gases which are a lot. There's a lot more variables with gases than there are with.

12:05.66
sharonpak5
Ah, her.

12:24.91
Michael Proudnikov
Um, liquids. Yeah.

12:27.20
sharonpak5
For sure they kind of analyze them the same right? It's just like there's more variables that you have to look out for but in the software. It's like the same type of deal like gases versus like fluids. Um, yeah, interesting.

12:38.39
Michael Proudnikov
Right? And yeah, yeah, what? um yeah, so and late side note I I think this one's a little bit scraveled. Let me know if you want to redo it at all. Um.

12:44.40
sharonpak5
Ah, you can continue.

12:49.20
sharonpak5
Okay, now you're good I Yeah okay.

12:54.31
Michael Proudnikov
Okay, okay, okay I'm going back into it. Okay, yeah, no, but for aerospace engineers that I know have worked on aerospace engineering projects in the computer labs ah near the Rocket team. All I know is there.

13:10.57
sharonpak5
Yeah, ah.

13:12.64
Michael Proudnikov
Ah, computational fluid Dynamic simulations took days on end and so I think that if your so if you want to do a lot of analysis with Fluids then Aerospace is the way to go. But if you want to design systems that are kind of.

13:24.95
sharonpak5
Yeah.

13:32.17
Michael Proudnikov
Under the umbrella of Aerospace I think mechanical engineering is going to be more general and we'll give you a more systems level understanding versus the concepts of the fluid dynamics or the the flow through um is whatever. System you've got going.

13:50.14
sharonpak5
Yeah, so sounds like if you want to work more on the analysis of designs of aerospace designs then you should go into aerospace engineering but I feel like a lot of times when people major in Aerospace. It's not because they want to do analysis. It's because they want to actually design like the actual parts right. Like they want to design like the airplane wing or they want to design like the airplane body or like they want to like do something like that right? Which in that case, what would you? so like? do you think that there's any benefit at all of going to aerospace versus like mechanical.

14:15.57
Michael Proudnikov
Um, yeah.

14:25.74
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah I think that knowing so the way a lot of aerospace classes I notice are structured is they'll take the context of a plane or a rocked an engine or something and teach you the concepts.

14:39.10
sharonpak5
Yeah.

14:43.39
Michael Proudnikov
In terms of that system. So there is a lot of there's if you are looking to design ah planes or Rocket engines specifically and that that is really exactly what you want to do um and like you said the plane wing that'd be a perfect example of wanting.

14:46.69
sharonpak5
Ah.

14:52.12
sharonpak5
Yeah.

15:00.99
Michael Proudnikov
Having a big advantage of or for aerospace air engineering major to have a big advantage over mechanical engineering since most of the problems you're going to find in class and most of the concepts that you're going to be taught are already in the concept of that system. So then when you go to apply those concepts in your personal projects and at work.

15:16.29
sharonpak5
Ah, her a her.

15:20.97
Michael Proudnikov
Your foundational knowledge being based on that system makes that system familiar if that makes sense it.

15:26.39
sharonpak5
Yeah, you have like a leg up in terms of like understanding right? But it's like interesting now because I'm like at our work you and I still have to understand those things and we still work on those things. So it's like if we wanted to go and work in those things now we totally could even though we don't have an air.

15:36.85
Michael Proudnikov
Um, right? Yeah yeah, definitely and I think that you pick up a lot of things as you go along and work on whatever various projects you do um.

15:44.26
sharonpak5
Ah, space engineering background.

15:51.75
sharonpak5
Yeah.

15:54.34
Michael Proudnikov
I Think all engineering for being both in the things that were common between my aerospace engineering classes and my mechanical engineering classes were to give us problems to solve that were multisystem or being that multisystem but a more complicated system than just what your homework problems might give you. It's like.

16:00.66
sharonpak5
Okay.

16:11.97
sharonpak5
Sure.

16:14.10
Michael Proudnikov
Classes really tried to build on the concepts by providing you like word problems essentially to solve so they'll set up a situation and have you apply those concepts and that thinking mindset is what.

16:23.15
sharonpak5
Ya yaya.

16:29.87
Michael Proudnikov
Helps Engineers thrive in their careers.

16:33.45
sharonpak5
Definitely 100% and I think that was really good for you. It's because you joined your rocketry club so early right? like your freshman year. So once you started learning things in your classroom you immediately just got to apply what you learned into like a real life situation which really helped you like solidify the concepts you're learning in class.

16:49.20
Michael Proudnikov
Right? Exactly and freshman year my intro courses were the maths the sciences that you had to take kind of I was trying to get my geneds out of the way. But so actually I had the reverse happen where I learned the Concepts while I was working on the Rocket project from older members of the team.

16:51.23
sharonpak5
Right.

16:56.38
sharonpak5
Yeah.

17:07.97
Michael Proudnikov
And then when I encountered those problems in classes I was better requipped to handle them because they're like oh I have seen this before I've run structural simulations already. So I know what the professor is talking about ironically help me understand my coursework a little bit better.

17:08.79
sharonpak5
Ah.

17:11.13
sharonpak5
Yeah.

17:24.63
sharonpak5
Huh So you got it in reverse because normally it's like the other way around right? Where ha that's so interesting. Um, and so for you I know that a lot of people struggle like myself included where I didn't join any of those crazy technical clubs in college because it was intimidating to me I was just like.

17:28.38
Michael Proudnikov
Um, yeah.

17:37.40
Michael Proudnikov
Are.

17:42.40
sharonpak5
Those guys know way more than I do for like essay like baha formula rocketry clubs right? where I'm just like they are so intimidating and so did you just like walk in your freshman you're like I don't care I'm here to learn like no pride involved I don't care if they think I'm stupid.

17:44.83
Michael Proudnikov
Um, yeah.

18:00.70
sharonpak5
Or like how did you walk in there your freshman year and get so involved on the team.

18:05.76
Michael Proudnikov
That's a great question. My actually my passion for wanting to work on that stuff and my my cool factor eyes were big enough to Cloud any fears of being intimidated by them which is pretty interesting. Um yeah, the way I found out about the club was.

18:09.56
sharonpak5
Yeah.

18:16.75
sharonpak5
Ha ha.

18:23.11
Michael Proudnikov
We had these like we had North fest and festtifa at our school which was yeah no, it's pretty great. Um, so essentially these clubs would have um and it's not like this at every school I think but.

18:26.97
sharonpak5
What is that like what.

18:42.39
Michael Proudnikov
Think of it as a career fair for clubs but a lot less intimidating than an actual career fair So you'll have all of these student organizations put up tables introduce their club and what it's about and try to recruit new members to continue growing their clubs and enabling the team to do more and more cooler things.

18:43.62
sharonpak5
Okay, okay.

19:00.14
Michael Proudnikov
And so they were super welcoming at their table when I walked by and then they had this info session where they took took up a lecture room brought us all in gave us. Ah, here's what you can do on the club here are the different things you can work on and overall that team was super welcoming once I got to once I got to those presentations.

19:00.87
sharonpak5
Ah.

19:12.69
sharonpak5
Um.

19:17.29
sharonpak5
Okay.

19:18.94
Michael Proudnikov
Um, but even if they do still seem intimidating after something like that I attended my first team meeting unsure of anything that was going on I sat down and there were all these like members that have been working on the project for.

19:23.30
sharonpak5
I.

19:33.56
sharonpak5
Ah.

19:36.21
Michael Proudnikov
Multiple years at that point and they were just talking all this thing all this stuff that sounded like gibberish to me. Um, but yeah, yeah, but at the same time All of those people.

19:41.63
sharonpak5
Yup, which is why I was like add they're too smart I don't know they're talking about I'm leaving im out like yeah.

19:56.80
Michael Proudnikov
Are passionate the ones that are talking at those meetings are passionate about the club and want to see it grow and in my experience. They're always more than happy to teach new members. How to do the thing So in my case I I was I think a little bold so I walked up to the ah the presenter of that meeting so that was the.

20:08.60
sharonpak5
Ah, aha.

20:15.98
Michael Proudnikov
Propulsion sub team leads. So she led all things Rocket engine designed and manufacturing on the team I walked up through and said can it I know we're gonna I know you've introduced these groups these subgroups that you're gonna be working in but can I start working now. Um, and so.

20:22.44
sharonpak5
Um, and.

20:34.30
Michael Proudnikov
So I really did just ask to to start working and jump in which if you're somebody who's really passionate about a particular project that you found in particular team just go and ask chances are they will be extremely happy to give you some work to do and.

20:42.89
sharonpak5
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

20:53.71
Michael Proudnikov
Know that you're a freshman. You definitely look like a freshman at that point. Um I Guess in my case I was a freshman but I've also had people join the team when they were sophomores Juniors wanting to get involved and of course you might jump.

20:57.16
sharonpak5
Yeah, yeah.

21:05.72
sharonpak5
Yep.

21:11.51
Michael Proudnikov
Join the team at different points in the year perhaps but that doesn't affect how the other members will welcome you and try to give you work to do to help further the project. So as soon as long as you express interest in something and you're open minded to whatever tasks and projects that the team is working on and you come in with an eagerness to learn.

21:14.84
sharonpak5
Ah.

21:20.97
sharonpak5
Ah.

21:25.43
sharonpak5
Ah.

21:30.96
Michael Proudnikov
They will help you and teach you and train you because they were you in their shoes or sorry you exactly exactly they they also were the scared um unaffiliated member. Let's say that wasn't on the team.

21:32.20
sharonpak5
Um, ah have.

21:36.80
sharonpak5
They were in your shoes. Yeah, hey. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

21:49.94
Michael Proudnikov
And they they know how it feels and they've they've been through it so they'll help you through it too.

21:54.90
sharonpak5
Yeah, for sure I think that's like so one very uncommon for a freshman to get involved that early I'm like you were a bold like whether or not you realize you're being bold at the time because you're just like starry out you're like this is perfect. This is why I came to the school right? like this is what I want to do.

22:10.20
Michael Proudnikov
Like yeah like money.

22:14.56
sharonpak5
Um, I think that boldness is like awesome right? where I'm just like oh I kind of wish that I I think that was later on that I realize that because people were like me and they're intimidated and they're like I don't want to join I don't want to look stupid. But ultimately it doesn't matter at what point you join, you're still not going to know anything anyways.

22:28.74
Michael Proudnikov
Um, not.

22:30.88
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, exactly.

22:33.49
sharonpak5
Like you're probably like sure you have more coursework under your belt but like it's completely different actually working hands on on stuff versus like knowing all the stuff in your head theoretically? um.

22:41.46
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, you're absolutely right? You might have the equations from class and everything but it doesn't compare to working on the actual project.

22:50.55
sharonpak5
Yeah, definitely and so for you since we were on that team for so long and then you kind of flipped over and you started recruiting people right? Um, as you had more tenure and seniority on the team. Um, did you. I Guess ever like get frustrated with new members on the team or do you think that's just like something that people have in their head or they're like oh I'm annoying them or whatever did you ever actually felt like you're annoyed with new members asking you questions and something like that for people that are like scared of Joining. Ah, team like that. That's really intimidating.

23:22.73
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, that's a great question. The only time I've ever been frustrated with new members was when they committed and then didn't show up. So yeah, the I've had people that were pestering while we're in the computer lab.

23:31.60
sharonpak5
That makes sense.

23:41.68
Michael Proudnikov
Asking How do I do this? How do I do that I love them. They are curious. Everyone has a different learning rate and so the fact that they are there and they are trying their absolute best makes me want to help them way more than somebody who I know is I.

23:51.64
sharonpak5
Ah.

24:01.80
Michael Proudnikov
Seeing a little bit of their work and I know that they're super technically sound well-minded all the good stuff like you're perfect engineer. But if they don't that perfect engineer doesn't show up I'm not interested in helping them. But if somebody who doesn't know what they're doing yet wants to figure out how to do something that.

24:07.71
sharonpak5
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

24:21.60
Michael Proudnikov
You can help them figure out how to do or I guess they're working on your team. You have experience with the team they need help understanding I will help that person 10 times out of 10 to make sure that they have a good grasp of what they're doing. They get something good out of it and they're proud of the design or analysis. They.

24:21.92
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

24:27.94
sharonpak5
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

24:39.43
Michael Proudnikov
Bring out.

24:41.19
sharonpak5
Yeah, that's so good. Um, and so that being said, um when you started applying for internships. Um I don't know when you got your first internship I know we were just talking about like your whole like Linkedin timeline and I got all confused. Ah.

24:46.66
Michael Proudnikov
Like yeah.

24:54.28
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

24:59.13
sharonpak5
But I know that you're at university for like four four and a half four years right ish.

25:04.26
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, sort of um I yeah I took a I guess broken up schedule where for my freshmen and sophomore years I did the full four semesters of that time and then I took the what would have been my first semester junior year off for an internship and then resumed school. I still finish the eight semesters though.

25:25.13
sharonpak5
Gotcha gotcha. Okay so you just kind of took like a gap semester to go and turn. Um and so for your first internship. Do you think that the thing that made you stand out the most was your rocketry club experience. Okay.

25:38.34
Michael Proudnikov
That's a I've got a great story for that one. So as yeah as a sort sophomore with a year of this rocketry club experience under my belt I was super excited to go to career fair in the fall and show off and I got nothing.

25:42.35
sharonpak5
Let's hear.

25:55.54
Michael Proudnikov
So I yeah so I went back and tried again for my ah second semester sophomore year and so I'd been applying to internships haphazardly honestly not as hard as I should have been. Um.

26:08.84
sharonpak5
Um, and yeah, yeah.

26:15.48
Michael Proudnikov
And then figure that if I don't get it I can stick around and work on the rocketry club over the summer or I can look for some research opportunities with some professors I kind of started that work starting started to look into that just to expand my range of like what have I done kind of thing because internships are hard. It's.

26:26.84
sharonpak5
Um, yeah, yeah I think it's the hardest thing in the world to freaking land your first internship.

26:34.82
Michael Proudnikov
Yes, yeah, exactly which is why I am extremely thankful for the rocketry club. So by the second semester of my sophomore year I had taken over the lead position of production manager on the club.

26:39.10
sharonpak5
Yeah.

26:43.21
sharonpak5
Okay.

26:51.33
sharonpak5
On your sophomore year you are elite already. That's crazy.

26:52.95
Michael Proudnikov
Which yeah, sophomore year second semester um yeah we had a so the production manager role is the lead of all machining and fabrication for the club.

27:11.65
sharonpak5
Ah.

27:11.90
Michael Proudnikov
And so there weren't There weren't that many people that joined the rocketry club to go make rockets physically. There weren't many of us on the team and so what I should of interest in that is something I Really genuinely enjoyed doing and it was absolutely a need that need that needed filling.

27:21.45
sharonpak5
Ok.

27:29.10
sharonpak5
Ah.

27:32.30
Michael Proudnikov
Spent a lot of time in the machine shop making the parts learning how it works getting to what was called mentor status on the machines which meant that the organization that ran the machine shop which was like 2 guys like 2 adults one that.

27:36.47
sharonpak5
Ah.

27:49.48
Michael Proudnikov
Manage The shop is like the shop manager and the other one that was kind of like the supervisor of all the students working there but they actually employed students of the design teams as the staff and so as you spend more time in the machine shop you learn the machines you get more comfortable with them and.

27:50.28
sharonpak5
Are.

28:05.52
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

28:07.94
Michael Proudnikov
You can make your way towards staff positions or you can I guess and or most people that both become a mentor on the machines where you've gotten enough experience that you're trusted to teach someone else. How to do it. So I'd worked my way up to a mentor to kind of give an idea for how much time I spent in this shop.

28:19.98
sharonpak5
Aha.

28:26.25
Michael Proudnikov
Um, yeah, it's is not common for there to be sophomore level mentors. Usually you'd have to usually it's the Junior year but some people were crazy. They're definitely.

28:26.97
sharonpak5
I'm pretty sure you're probably 1 of the youngest mentors there right.

28:44.62
Michael Proudnikov
Younger mentors than I at at some point in my shop. Yeah, there's as I say there's always a bigger fish. But um, but yeah, so with that with that type of report um and the limited number of people who.

28:45.13
sharonpak5
Really huh. Okay.

28:54.50
sharonpak5
Ah, okay, okay.

29:04.10
Michael Proudnikov
We're available to do that work. We had the production manager leave for an internship second semester. So I backfilled his role while he was away and so that means he kind of chose me to take it on once he was gone. Um, but yeah, as.

29:13.77
sharonpak5
Ah.

29:18.18
sharonpak5
Um.

29:20.90
Michael Proudnikov
Um, which is what was the original question again.

29:25.66
sharonpak5
How would you? Ah howd the rocketry club help you with your first internship landing your first internship. Yeah.

29:28.44
Michael Proudnikov
Yes, that's right? Okay, so ah so I became the production manager of the rocky club and the the team had an opportunity from ah at the time was orbital atk.

29:33.30
sharonpak5
Yeah.

29:45.20
Michael Proudnikov
Um, so they had a group the group that was there recruiting for the career fair. Our outreach team had managed to secure us a ah cdr so critical design review of our rocket that year from that team and the idea there is that these industry professionals who have had significant experience.

29:50.89
sharonpak5
Ah.

30:00.64
sharonpak5
Ah.

30:05.00
Michael Proudnikov
Designing building space, systems and fluid systems are coming in listening to a presentation about a raucous design and providing feedback and so as a I don't think it's cheating I think it's.

30:16.30
sharonpak5
Um, is that cheating.

30:22.50
sharonpak5
<unk>s like our school definitely didn't have ah I'm like trying to think like if you have like a like a actual Nascar like person like engineers reviewing your thing I'm like I don't know I felt that's kind of cheating no like.

30:23.30
Michael Proudnikov
Like.

30:33.46
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah I guess from the out now that you say that I think it could be compared to some of the other schools out there. It's definitely due to Michigan's legacy that we were able to secure something like that. So yeah, some folks have.

30:40.80
sharonpak5
Yeah.

30:47.20
sharonpak5
That's crazy. Yeah.

30:50.63
Michael Proudnikov
I Have gotten advice from some folks in the past that your bachelor's degree doesn't matter. It's your master's that matters. But I think that there is value in going to a big name school for for all the controversy they do indeed have the resources they claim to have Um, yeah.

31:00.24
sharonpak5
Ah.

31:03.30
sharonpak5
Oh for sure for sure. Yeah, my school did not have those types of resources for sure. Yeah.

31:10.14
Michael Proudnikov
Exactly but it it goes to show that they're not super necessary for your final career. So it's cool to have in the future. Yeah, great.

31:20.23
sharonpak5
This is a total side tangent. But like if we're to go down this path. Um I think that going to the big name schools like Michigan because I went to calsey fullerton which is like a no name like ah engineering school I think the benefit you get from going to a big name school like Michigan or purdue or whatever like mit right.

31:26.63
Michael Proudnikov
But.

31:35.12
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah.

31:37.62
sharonpak5
You get to go into the big companies right out of school so like at your career fairs. You have all the bigger companies that are already recruiting from your school and so your odds of getting into the bigger like engineering schools like right out of college is a lot higher. But if you go to the smaller like schools. Um.

31:53.60
Michael Proudnikov
Um, you.

31:56.70
sharonpak5
You might not get into the same companies like right out of school for your first job but doesn't mean you can't go to the bigger companies later. It's kind of my like two cents type of deal of how I see it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

32:03.54
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, no, that's I hundred I a hundred percent agree with you. It's definitely the kind of thing where oh your name's out there use your name to get recruited and stuff and so it does give more eyes on you as a alumni of that program.

32:20.62
sharonpak5
Yeah.

32:22.60
Michael Proudnikov
And the school has a larger school will have more resources because there's a larger student body. But I think.

32:27.90
sharonpak5
Guess you had an actual like rocket company doing your Cdr for you like that's crazy. Yeah.

32:35.99
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, it's It's pretty crazy. Not that I think about it because like there's like oh yeah, cool. Um I'm sorry I.

32:45.63
sharonpak5
That's not normal Michael that's not normal.

32:53.51
Michael Proudnikov
A for for a podcast. You know what I mind. Um I wont take that change or that down Ig ignore me ignore me I'll I'll tell it I'll tell the story I I have to tell and I guess it is what it is.

33:04.34
sharonpak5
Ah, okay.

33:07.77
sharonpak5
Okay, what which story the story. Okay, go ahead. A.

33:10.69
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah I'll continue it like at a certain cutoff point. Yeah, so yeah, and from this design interview as a lead I was asked to present and I presented my section about manufacturing and apparently that had caught the ear of of one of the recruiters because when I went to their table the next day he remembered me from that presentation and yeah, which is I was able to leave an impact on somebody which is pretty cool in the moment and he then this was an avionics engineer but he said I had no idea what you're talking about, but it sounded like you knew what you were talking about.

33:31.45
sharonpak5
Wow.

33:38.57
sharonpak5
Yeah, yeah.

33:50.58
Michael Proudnikov
Um, yeah, so he took my resume. Yeah.

33:54.23
sharonpak5
That's kind of like a beige flag like where you're like you. You're an actual engineer and you don't know what I'm talking about like what you mean.

33:59.90
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, but the thing is he's an Avionix engineer so manufacturing is pretty far away from electrical systems and computer science and all the like yeah but I guess what he was looking for.

34:03.81
sharonpak5
Us true.

34:10.27
sharonpak5
Sure yeah.

34:16.39
Michael Proudnikov
In me or just what he saw in me wasn't necessarily that I knew a specific discipline really? Well, it's that I knew what I worked on well enough to talk about it confidently concisely and clearly um so.

34:24.44
sharonpak5
And.

34:31.53
sharonpak5
And ah.

34:36.30
Michael Proudnikov
Just because you don't have a big huge flashy project then do your belt which I guess may not be the best example for that. But if you can convey what you're talking about or convey your work in a.

34:41.33
sharonpak5
And.

34:52.29
Michael Proudnikov
Concise Manner That's easy to understand that gives you a huge leg up versus somebody who has a extremely technically advanced project but has struggles to communicate it.

35:00.92
sharonpak5
Yeah, for sure and like I mean you and I work together on the same team right? And so I think with you just like working with you I know that you have all the background information to answer every single question that they have always Michael could write like a 20 page paper on his.

35:04.92
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, yeah.

35:12.56
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

35:20.80
sharonpak5
Is like 2 line response right? like he'll respond to you only giving you whatever information he thinks is relevant at the time. But if you want the 20 page thesis. He got it right in his back pocket it where its like if you want it, he got it and so I think that's the best thing to have.

35:34.83
Michael Proudnikov
Um, yeah, a hundred percent

35:36.88
sharonpak5
Where you have all that information in the background. So if they have additional questions you have to be able to answer it Otherwise it just looks like you don't actually know your stuff. Um, but people have the like attention span of a gnat. So if you have the attention span of a gnat you have to be able to just say what they need to hear to understand it at the time.

35:43.25
Michael Proudnikov
Right.

35:56.85
sharonpak5
Um, but I think that a lot of engineers they struggle with that. Um, because they like all the technical stuff I mean that's why they went into engineering because they think it's interesting, but they're not able to convey it really clearly and concisely. But that's kind of how you stand out as an engineer right? It's like you have to have the technical stuff.

36:04.42
Michael Proudnikov
Are.

36:12.60
Michael Proudnikov
A.

36:16.15
sharonpak5
But also have the communication and concise clear communication. Yeah.

36:19.62
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, exactly. Um, the for all the technical classeses I took um you know and I'm sure you've heard the Joke. That's if you everything you learn in college throw out out the window you have to relearn everything once you get to the. Working world. Really? Oh okay, well there's some variation of that that I've heard So it's like where a lot of the thing is what it boils down to is a lot of the things that you work on in school you learn the concepts and then when you get to your actual full-time Job. You're going to use a small subset of those concepts.

36:38.83
sharonpak5
I Actually haven't heard that.

36:57.13
Michael Proudnikov
Or maybe it's you major to mechanical engineering for example and you're going into manufacturing engineering where only small pieces of some of your classes are relevant to your particular project. Yeah, but the 1 class I took I guess the one type of class I took that.

36:57.87
sharonpak5
Ah.

37:04.63
sharonpak5
Ah.

37:06.60
sharonpak5
Oh for sure. Yeah.

37:15.28
Michael Proudnikov
Ah, use time and time again on the daily in fact, was technical communication and so really, that's disappointing.

37:19.78
sharonpak5
Ah, man we didn't have that class. They added that class after I graduated. Yeah yeah, ah but please continue because I'm very curious about what this technical communication class entailed because I don't think that's standard across all a buted. Um.

37:31.64
Michael Proudnikov
Sure.

37:37.25
sharonpak5
A bet accredited universities in the United States it can't be because my school was a bet accredited and we did not have a technical communications class until after I graduated and I'm just like bro like.

37:37.87
Michael Proudnikov
Interesting.

37:45.60
Michael Proudnikov
Gotcha Oh that's that is funny. Yeah, so the the idea behind that class was you are given projects like lab projects to do so.

37:59.16
sharonpak5
Aha.

37:59.85
Michael Proudnikov
We had let's say Yes, best example, best example I can think of is they had a tensel test lab. So the Lab Ta or I a or Kraver you call the teaching assistant. That's also the grad student had set up a tensel tester.

38:11.58
sharonpak5
Ah.

38:18.65
sharonpak5
Ah.

38:19.83
Michael Proudnikov
In the in the lab and they ran the test and so they did the thing where they pulled the dog bone and shoot in half and took the data from that and then they did 1 another test for fracture. So it's a very similar you take your piece of metal. You notch it to astm standards and then you um.

38:28.21
sharonpak5
Brother. Ah.

38:38.94
Michael Proudnikov
They drove down the the pusher until it stacked and so they gathered all that data and distributed out to these these groups of us so we were up in groups of 4 and our task was to write a report based on that data and so.

38:41.31
sharonpak5
Yeah.

38:50.70
sharonpak5
Ah.

38:56.24
Michael Proudnikov
Before the before the lab we had had a lecture where they presented the particular problem. It's like oh so-and-s so lab ah needs their material tested because they're not sure about their design and they want to know um of this material that we have what are the mechanical properties and so they kind of set us up with a word problem.

39:01.63
sharonpak5
Ah.

39:12.91
sharonpak5
Ah.

39:15.40
Michael Proudnikov
And perform the test for us in lab I think they would have let us perform it ourselves had they enough equipment and trusted us to operate machinery that probably yeah.

39:22.60
sharonpak5
Yes, what have probably broke the machine. Yeah, this is too expensive to let these guys use because they're going to break it? yeah.

39:30.11
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, exactly so. But anyway we had a data reduction part of it so we took the data and we learned how to work with data and create plots that make sense out of it that we can put in reports and then we wrote the report and the report had very. Had a standard format where it had a a summary and or a forward and a summary which describes the problem and um, a summation of what our test report says and then the rest of the report had to be no more than 6 pages including plots and it had to be like I think they restricted us to times 0 roman 11

40:00.87
sharonpak5
Ah.

40:09.69
Michael Proudnikov
Font size or something and so all of this all of this information about the data all the plots and answering all the prompts in the original statement. We had to figure out how to convey all that information clearly.

40:12.30
sharonpak5
Ah.

40:20.49
sharonpak5
Um, ah.

40:24.16
Michael Proudnikov
And concisely is the concisely that they really focused us on because they took a significant amount of points off if you exceeded 6 pages and so it's that kind of thing and they taught us how to write technically? Well, so for example, if you're.

40:29.52
sharonpak5
Her.

40:43.50
Michael Proudnikov
Referring to a number you say though the way they taught us was um if you are giving a count of something so like there were 3 specimens tested that 3 needs to be written out as the word 3

40:44.60
sharonpak5
And.

41:02.97
sharonpak5
Um, ah her her.

41:03.27
Michael Proudnikov
And then if you have data then you can leave it as the unit and then um or leave it in the unit. So it's like a full number. So like 3.0 whatever grams per cubic centimeter or something for example, um, but those are the kind of like the niche.

41:19.40
sharonpak5
Ah, ah.

41:22.43
Michael Proudnikov
Little rules that they taught us um, other ones that it don't recall off the top of my head but that technical communication class was what helps me be concise in some of the things I say at work.

41:22.67
sharonpak5
Sharp or sure.

41:39.10
sharonpak5
Gotcha And yeah I mean it shows right? I think that we didn't necessarily have a whole class on it but that was kind of like woven into all of our lab reports where we had like a lab report like format. But I think it would have been really cool to have a like class specifically dedicated to like technical writing versus like every.

41:44.32
Michael Proudnikov
Like yeah yeah, like.

41:56.00
sharonpak5
Professor had their own lab report like format on what they wanted us to do and it like drove me insane right? because I'm like this guy wanted this this guy wanted this like why is an all just like uniform you know? um, but ok, no, it wasn't it really wasn't ah but ok, it is what it is.

41:56.57
Michael Proudnikov
So yeah.

42:06.16
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, that's not helpful because.

42:15.79
sharonpak5
Um, but okay so from your technical writing class which you use every single day and your internships your rocketry club. Um, how would you say was your transition into industry and like how was that like once you graduated.

42:22.11
Michael Proudnikov
Um, um.

42:32.28
sharonpak5
Ah, when you're like all stoked to work in aerospace because I know that you had 2 like aerospace internships to you interned at like northrop up and then you internet blue. Um, and so how was like that post-grad life.

42:35.59
Michael Proudnikov
Is.

42:45.38
Michael Proudnikov
So covid um I was an unfortunate um I had an unfortunate graduation date of December Twenty Twenty which was yellow exactly which meant that i.

42:55.89
sharonpak5
Who let's go Twenty Twenty our year. Yeah.

43:03.47
Michael Proudnikov
Searching for internships while all of my other like so like spring summer 2020 grads were looking for full-time jobs I was still looking for internships and really I just ah I had a second blue internship that I I was doing at that point. But I think I would have been looking in the fall of Twenty nineteen towards like.

43:18.72
sharonpak5
Ah.

43:22.44
Michael Proudnikov
Early winter 2020 before covid happened I was lucky that my internship wasn't taken away. Um, most of my friends who had gotten offers in hand from their companies for full time work were able to keep their roles which was really nice to see I think yeah.

43:29.11
sharonpak5
Are ah ah.

43:36.15
sharonpak5
Oh Wow it was not the same what my friends I think half of them lost her job offers or like the companies completely went under words like the company literally did not exist anymore. Yeah yeah.

43:40.83
Michael Proudnikov
Um, you know? Oh yeah, yeah, that's that's unfortunate for sure. But yeah, but in in my case it when I was starting to look for a job again. It was a. Not very filled market. So there are very few opportunities. So I actually um was unable to find a position at blue right away out of school because they had stopped hiring for covid. They'd still honored offers given beforehand but they still hiring. Slow down hiring from there. So. It's actually I kept looking for work kept interviewing through September through December Twenty Twenty and then I graduated with no offer in hand I had one last interview which I ended up just barely getting passed over for another candidate.

44:19.69
sharonpak5
Ah.

44:29.53
sharonpak5
Ah.

44:36.55
Michael Proudnikov
Um, yeah, who I the the hard feelings there I so I ended up unemployed for about six months living with my parents looking forward and that was probably a low point.

44:36.71
sharonpak5
Dang.

44:44.41
sharonpak5
Yeah, yeah.

44:53.50
Michael Proudnikov
Because all these things I talked about all these like credentials and stuff. It's even the best of us get hit with unlucky times sometimes um, exactly.

44:54.55
sharonpak5
Yeah.

45:03.95
sharonpak5
Sure because I mean like on paper you had everything right? you had like 4 internships at big companies like northrop and blue right? while you're in college. Um you had a pretty solid Gpa when you're at Michigan um, you're part of the rocketry club. So you're like on paper. And you had an even leadership experience right? So you're like on paper these are all the things that you need to get a job right out of college. Um, and so how did you kind of like cope with that during those six months um and what advice would you have for students for because now obviously like you love your job. You're doing what you wanted to do working on rocket engines every single day but it took you a while before you got there. So for students that feel like they had everything like lined up like you did, but then they are facing like a lull because the job market's really competitive right now. Um.

45:42.77
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah.

45:57.10
sharonpak5
For people that just graduated from school like what type of advice would you give them.

46:01.27
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, the biggest piece of advice I give is don't treat your situation as a poor reflection on you necessarily So it's it's a rough situation. It's very competitive and you never know what factors are edging.

46:13.52
sharonpak5
Ah.

46:20.59
Michael Proudnikov
People into certain roles, Etc, etc. So I took it really hard personally um but know that it's not you. It's it's not anything about you specifically that.

46:28.45
sharonpak5
Ah.

46:39.99
Michael Proudnikov
Is causing you to struggle to find a job. It's just the brutalness and roughness of the job market and so those during those six months I think the biggest advice can give is keep applying I know it's hard to get through it I know it's you get discouraged a lot but the.

46:44.64
sharonpak5
And.

46:57.68
sharonpak5
Um.

46:59.72
Michael Proudnikov
Those applications will eventually get a hit. You'll start getting. You might get some feedback from recruiters. You might have a few interviews here and there and use those use those few things as opportunities to level up your intern or your interview game and keep sprucing your application.

47:16.83
sharonpak5
Um.

47:19.48
Michael Proudnikov
And it's what they say about changing your resume. It definitely helps writing a cover letter I know it seems there's and it seems like a lot of effort. But when you're specific particularly pasture amount of company. It's worth it. It wasn't blue that ended up hiring me.

47:28.26
sharonpak5
Ah.

47:37.46
sharonpak5
Ah.

47:39.25
Michael Proudnikov
Ah, out of that lull. It was another company. Um, just completely unrelated to aerospace is ah actually a 3 d printing company and the reason why they why I think they really clung to me was that in my cover letter.

47:49.31
sharonpak5
Ah, has.

47:55.15
Michael Proudnikov
Talked a lot about their technology specifically in the context of why I'm interested in their technology and so that gets notice by the recruiters that definitely showed in my interviews with them and so that's job I eventually ended up getting and that was after.

48:02.10
sharonpak5
Um.

48:07.72
sharonpak5
Um.

48:11.70
sharonpak5
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah before you ended up at the job you actually wanted to be yeah right? We're here like this was the company I wanted to go to I there a bunch of times like I want to go back The job Market just sucks right now right.

48:14.30
Michael Proudnikov
Six months of practice trying to figure things out. Not.

48:25.21
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, it does? Yeah yeah, and then hiring eventually picked up for for blue and for many other companies in the industry and so it's important if if there is particular company that you're excited about and you want to be a part of.

48:30.60
sharonpak5
And yeah.

48:40.85
Michael Proudnikov
Definitely watch the trends in hiring keep monitoring that company keep in touch with recruiters and people that you've met in your hiring mission Linkedin and all that good stuff and when when the time comes and they're able to hire you. You will be able to make a great case for yourself.

48:50.15
sharonpak5
Um, ah.

48:58.53
sharonpak5
For sure because you're already a familiar name and a face right? and they kind of already know who you are um so yeah, that's awesome advice. Um, what I was also going to ask you was do you feel like even though you went.

49:00.44
Michael Proudnikov
Exactly.

49:13.85
sharonpak5
To a company that wasn't necessarily your number 1 choice at the time right right out of school that you were able to that that experience helped you at all um in your current role now.

49:24.84
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah I think that it gave me a good idea of what it's like to work as a full-time engineer versus internships so internships your project's limited your scopes limited The people you talked to are limited and the problems that you're probably going to be solving.

49:31.76
sharonpak5
Are.

49:43.51
Michael Proudnikov
Are already kind of well understood by the by the people running the internship chances are they're going to want you to succeed in that particular project. So they'll give you something that they already understand and can help them to you through? Um yeah, so then jumping into the full-time role at a company that.

49:48.78
sharonpak5
So true 100%

50:03.36
Michael Proudnikov
I didn't know the technology though I'd studied it conceptually in practice for my interviews and stuff I didn't really know binder jet 3 d printing most people ask? what's that the answer is it's just a weird little niche type of 3 d printing that takes advantage of inkjet printer technology to print faster. Um.

50:19.21
sharonpak5
Yep.

50:22.69
Michael Proudnikov
And so I ended up having to navigate not being mentored that much of working a lot more independently and solving broader less clear problems. So it's like hey our technology is not working help. So um, you're going to.

50:26.20
sharonpak5
Are.

50:36.91
sharonpak5
Yeah.

50:42.24
Michael Proudnikov
You kind of just have to go in and use the problem solving skills that you've picked up along the way. Um, you learn how to communicate professionally with your team you learn how to report out on your project on a regular basis. You learn to pace yourself in your work and ah like.

50:53.45
sharonpak5
Um, ah ah her.

50:59.57
Michael Proudnikov
Deadlinings and communication in the corporate speak and then how to navigate different personnel in a particular company and so I think they gave me a great head start when I came to blue so I was able to use those skills I picked up to jump in and be an effective team member right away compared to somebody who.

51:07.13
sharonpak5
Are her ah her.

51:17.54
Michael Proudnikov
Compared him myself when I was fresh out of school fresh out of school. Let's call it and I yeah.

51:20.90
sharonpak5
Sure sure sure sure and then what sorry Okay, okay, okay, um, so do you feel like that was like the biggest I feel like.

51:26.11
Michael Proudnikov
I had nothing beyond that. Yeah.

51:36.42
sharonpak5
Me the biggest culture shock if you will between an internship position and a full time position was as an intern you praise for everything and anything you do right? like you do nothing, you do like the Savas things and people were like wow you're amazing because the bar is like dirt low and they're just trying to you're set up for success right? where they're just like.

51:44.91
Michael Proudnikov
Um, yeah, that's true.

51:50.67
Michael Proudnikov
Right? if.

51:56.24
sharonpak5
Have this nicely scoped out problem. We kind of already know how to solve the problem. We're just kind of like guiding you through this project and so of course you're going to be successful at the end because they want you to be successful. Um, did you ever feel like you're discouraged at your new role and your new job. Did you ever go through like postgrad depression type of deal. Because you're not getting the praise constantly anymore. Everyone's not like wow Michael you're incredible. You're amazing. Yeah.

52:16.53
Michael Proudnikov
Oh yeah I a hundred percent would do that it. It was hard to kind of cope with getting an okay thanks to something I spent a lot of time on it was like. Oh huh so it. It was definitely an adjustment period. Um, if I were to give myself advice. It. It would be to.

52:39.10
sharonpak5
Ah.

52:47.46
Michael Proudnikov
Man anything for sorry.

52:49.89
sharonpak5
Yeah here I'll pause it. Okay, so yeah.

52:54.82
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, the advice I The advice I give myself early on would be I don't want to say don't take things personally but know that what some of your coworkers are telling You is not an accurate reflection of your work because of how busy they are and especially if it.

53:14.30
sharonpak5
Um, oh sure. Sure sure.

53:14.48
Michael Proudnikov
A negative reaction to your work. In fact I've gotten some pretty harsh responses to a small mistake I've made in the past there are times when I've made small mistakes and those are definitely not fun experiences. Especially if you're personally vested in your project.

53:33.38
sharonpak5
Like emailing the entire company on accident couldn't be me. Ah.

53:37.20
Michael Proudnikov
Um, yeah, that's oh yeah, mistakes like that you might get some. Ah.

53:52.79
Michael Proudnikov
And might get some negative feedback from some co-workers about that one but call it a learning opportunity.

53:55.29
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

54:01.54
sharonpak5
Yeah, um, and so like how did you deal with that. Initially when people when you feel like you're you're putting in the same amount of work and effort. Maybe even more work and effort when you're an intern and now you're a full time employee and you're like I'm putting. And more effort because I'm working here for more hours like every single day and it's been longer than like three months and like I'm not getting praised every second and now for some reason people are actually getting mad at me like how did you deal with that and how have you like been able to move past that.

54:21.10
Michael Proudnikov
Right.

54:27.73
Michael Proudnikov
In. Yeah, and so I think our role tends to be a lot of fast moving and chaotic work in particular and so I definitely felt a magnification of not having that level of praise at first I was like.

54:38.97
sharonpak5
For sure.

54:48.52
sharonpak5
Ah.

54:49.93
Michael Proudnikov
It It hit me in the emotional core kind of thing. Um, yeah, exactly I had those thoughtss I had those thoughts and it turned out that it took me a few times of just like questioning that and through repeated efforts of.

54:51.38
sharonpak5
You like am I doing something wrong is so it so wrong with me? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

55:09.93
Michael Proudnikov
Um I suppose defending my solutions. My suggestions and giving the team ideas or telling the team the ideas that I had um they had gotten the chance to or by advocating more I noticed that they listened more as well to me and.

55:14.91
sharonpak5
Are.

55:27.66
sharonpak5
And.

55:29.70
Michael Proudnikov
Through that time it kind of built up a thicker skin. So I think when you're fresh out of school. You don't have that corporate skin so to say so there's there's definitely ways that people talk in corporate life that is significantly different than your schools professors, mentors etc. Um.

55:44.69
sharonpak5
For sure.

55:47.44
Michael Proudnikov
Know that you are a new grad and the vast majority of people at that company have been working for a good few years at that point and so you're just you're just starting out. You're just getting caught up and eventually you will figure out how to navigate that.

55:57.65
sharonpak5
Ah.

56:05.40
Michael Proudnikov
And figure out how to separate the the kind of attitude you had towards your personal projects for example versus your work projects your and it turns out that when you do deliver something and when push comes to shove if you've done a good job then if you've done the good job that you think you did.

56:09.40
sharonpak5
Sure sure.

56:23.39
Michael Proudnikov
Then employers or your your fellow employees coworkers etc will recognize that in how it's received So the praise comes sometimes and know that and know that when it does come. It is most likely a reflection of.

56:32.84
sharonpak5
For sure. Ah.

56:41.36
Michael Proudnikov
All of the small pieces of praise you might have received along the way in an internship-like role.

56:47.31
sharonpak5
Sure Sure sure. Um, and so that being said now what would you so that being said like what would be your biggest piece of advice for people that are transitioning from school to like working full time um to kind of. Adjust to that new working environment.

57:08.29
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, no, um, best advice I'd give is to keep yourself a little brackheet of the things that you've done remember your wins and then when it comes time to talk with your manager about those kinds of things you. Always have that sheet as a backup to say like hey all the times I would have received praise in the path or you don't actually tell your manager that these are all the times I would have received praise in the past. But um, that little bracksheet. You've kept of like areas where you thought you would get praise or thought you should deserve praise.

57:24.40
sharonpak5
Um, ah.

57:35.59
sharonpak5
Ah, yeah.

57:43.33
Michael Proudnikov
Um, for those things when you present those sheets to your manager that will show in the form of the manager is like oh good job and give you more opportunities more challenging projects and then eventually promotions pay raises all that good stuff and so um.

57:50.59
sharonpak5
Are.

57:56.12
sharonpak5
For sure advocate for yourself.

58:00.25
Michael Proudnikov
Exactly advocate for yourself. Praise yourself and be proud of where you are because you've you've made it through school that was the hard part now the next hard part is navigating corporate life which has nothing to do with your actual engineering capabilities.

58:06.83
sharonpak5
For sure a 100% 100% okay and now that you know everything that you do and you've been working in industry for a couple of years

58:22.80
Michael Proudnikov
Um, yeah.

58:25.26
sharonpak5
If you're to go back to school um is there anything you would do differently or any advice that you would have for students that are currently in school wanting to work in a similar role as you are in now working on Rocket engines.

58:40.38
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, the so I personally had dedicated a lot of time onto that Rocket team. Um I definitely had moments of burnout and so I think my best advice is to.

58:46.39
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

58:56.14
Michael Proudnikov
Not only care for your engineering abilities that you're growing with your coursework and your extracurriculars of that type but also focus on social life and club events and things that you want to do the parts.

59:08.35
sharonpak5
Are ah.

59:12.96
sharonpak5
Ah.

59:13.47
Michael Proudnikov
Of school or the days I had at school that I hated um the most were when I was when I didn't have any particular assignments due and I didn't I wasn't hanging out with my friends for 1 reason or another I was just kind of.

59:21.62
sharonpak5
Ah.

59:32.20
Michael Proudnikov
Sitting around doing like I was scrolling on my phone or just like playing playing video games or something. It's those are the days I read the most ones where I wasn't out doing something. Um, now that I'm working in the corporate life I come home tired I.

59:48.83
sharonpak5
Her. Ah.

59:51.49
Michael Proudnikov
I find it like you've mentioned all these extreme sports that I do but without them and without having something like that. That's easy to access that I know how to do really? Well I guess not know how to do but know how to get to and set up really well social event.

59:54.37
sharonpak5
Yeah.

01:00:05.11
sharonpak5
Um.

01:00:09.90
sharonpak5
Um.

01:00:10.31
Michael Proudnikov
Setting up social events with friends is a great example of something that you can set up and do well in school but not well in the corporate world Once everybody's working has much busier schedules and say take it. Yeah exactly. But yeah, taking it? Yeah yeah.

01:00:20.20
sharonpak5
It's so hard. Yeah.

01:00:25.63
sharonpak5
Ah, he.

01:00:28.29
Michael Proudnikov
I Wish I would have taken advantage of the freedom that school gives you to be a human more I wouldn't do less I would do a little less but I wouldn't do significantly less of my extra curriculars. Um, and I don't necessarily regret my coursework or my journey.

01:00:35.13
sharonpak5
Ah, but.

01:00:42.32
sharonpak5
Are.

01:00:46.93
Michael Proudnikov
But I do regret not spending the majority of the vast majority of my days balancing my social life with all these other things I did.

01:00:58.79
sharonpak5
So do you wish that you would just like have hung out with your classmates more because obviously you were spending too much time on your rocketry team right? So ah, um, like what what would that have looked like practically for you.

01:01:05.20
Michael Proudnikov
Right? Exactly? Yeah gotcha. Yeah no I I wouldn't necessarily say my program classmates um something that that was really nice of knowing your class.

01:01:15.99
sharonpak5
Um, yeah.

01:01:22.85
Michael Proudnikov
Like your major class well is that you can rely on on each other for homework but the problem is you're only ever seeing them in an educational context. It's like these are the people I sit in class with I Want to deconnect disconnect from class. So it's actually my friends that were in other majors or other.

01:01:25.56
sharonpak5
Yeah, for sure.

01:01:33.16
sharonpak5
Are.

01:01:40.70
Michael Proudnikov
Schools Even it's like I guess parts of school like the business school or the like the science school or something something like that. But like exactly being away from like minded people in terms of academics was a.

01:01:45.82
sharonpak5
Yeah, every like other academic colleges. Yeah.

01:01:59.24
Michael Proudnikov
Life saver for the stressful days that I've had so.

01:02:03.30
sharonpak5
Okay, and so you wish that you would have like kept those connections I guess like outside of school. Um, and so you could like hang out with non-engine engineers.

01:02:16.28
Michael Proudnikov
Exactly Yeah, ah yeah I was able to find those friends through my dorm and various other just like friends of friends kind of thing. Um, but definitely take advantage of meeting people that aren't in your academic major while you're in school.

01:02:24.52
sharonpak5
Her.

01:02:31.36
sharonpak5
So good.

01:02:33.10
Michael Proudnikov
That's what I would tell myself to do. It's like yeah hang out with this. Um I won't say their name but like hang out with your educational major friend more or hang out. It's like yeah business school is kind of gross and poly size Actually let me detrac that.

01:02:52.77
Michael Proudnikov
Beginning.

01:02:55.84
sharonpak5
Ah, like yeah engineering is King every other major is garbage.

01:03:00.13
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, um, how far do I want that how far back do I Want to retract. Okay I'll say something and then you let me know if it's a good thing to like cut back into it. Ah, logical place where you started asking this question of is that good. Okay, um.

01:03:16.57
sharonpak5
K Go yeah.

01:03:23.80
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, like hanging out with my friends that were in other majors meant I got to encounter different mindsets and different ways of seeing the world which was actually very nice for relieving stress and if you want to tie it back to what you can be in a professional context. It's.

01:03:33.20
sharonpak5
Ah.

01:03:43.20
Michael Proudnikov
Sharing of ideas that gives you new more creative solutions to a particular problem. You're having trouble with so let's say I'm having a lot of trouble with my project. They'll go disconnect from it hang out with my friends that know nothing about engineering have an amazing time because they're amazing people and then somewhere in that interaction I found oh wait huh this concept.

01:03:47.80
sharonpak5
Who.

01:03:57.88
sharonpak5
Hush.

01:04:01.97
Michael Proudnikov
In early childhood education Somehow ties back to how I want my user interface or something to go on this. Um and this like term project I'm working on so it's like little little idea sharing things like that really help.

01:04:16.71
sharonpak5
Um, yeah I love it. Diversify your friend groups. Don't just stick in that engineering herd all throughout college. Go diversify your friends.

01:04:20.93
Michael Proudnikov
So.

01:04:25.52
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, exactly.

01:04:28.10
sharonpak5
And diversify the way you think because it'll help you out in the long run. Ah awesome. Well thank you so much Michael this was awesome. Um I had so much fun talking to you about your experiences. Yeah.

01:04:37.52
Michael Proudnikov
Yeah, yeah, of course, thanks so much for having me on it was this great experience getting to talk about hopefully inspire some choices for the fuck. No that was gross That was a gross outro.

01:04:54.90
sharonpak5
Yeah, inspire the youth we're inspiring the youth.

01:04:56.27
Michael Proudnikov
We That's I know it's the idea but I'm not I think you're not supposed to say it out right? okay.

01:05:06.53
sharonpak5
You're inspiring the youth to go into mechanical engineering and not aerospace but work in aerospace afterwards just don't major in aerospace because Aerospace is gross.

01:05:14.90
Michael Proudnikov
Now Just that's what the good stuff is exactly you don't want to be associated with those people. Yeah now. Ah yeah, wait let me redo that.

01:05:20.95
sharonpak5
Now therere growss just kidding perfect. Okay, go for it I'm like what I could cut from wherever so you can say whatever you want Michael and I'll just stitch it together and make it look like it's all connected.

01:05:29.60
Michael Proudnikov
Or at least give give you more content to work with okay sounds good. Um yeah, no, it was ah it was a huge pleasure being able to come and talk to you on the podcast.

01:05:40.67
sharonpak5
Yeah.

01:05:47.48
Michael Proudnikov
I Hope that some of my experiences will help understand some of the various many different paths and choices you can take on the way and that hurdles are hurdles and can be cleared and changing your major is a okay and corporate life is.

01:06:02.51
sharonpak5
Ah, yeah.

01:06:07.38
Michael Proudnikov
Soul sucking but you can get used to it and that's exactly exactly as as much as I love engineering and problem solving I.

01:06:13.61
sharonpak5
Ah, you will you'll survive. You'll you'll make money to pay for all your expensive crazy hobbies.

01:06:26.77
Michael Proudnikov
Love being able to pay for my back country Ski equipment much more that I love working.

01:06:34.96
sharonpak5
Um, yes, yes, yes, yes, Okay, perfect.