What Happens if You Fail an Engineering Class?

Are you feeling inadequate from sub-optimal grades or scared you aren't measuring up to your peers? In this week’s episode of Tech Exploited, Elle takes us on a global adventure. She obtained her bachelors in biomedical engineering from Johns Hopkins, pursued a master's program in Japan (for free!) and concluded her masters at the University of Washington.

Tune in as we dissect the challenges faced by females in engineering, especially those navigating the uncharted waters of Greek life during undergrad. We confront stereotypes, share personal experiences, and unveil the raw realities of forging a path in a male-dominated field.

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are solely my guest's and my own. They do not express the views or opinions of our employers.

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Transcript

00:00.00

sharon pak

Hi guys welcome back to another episode of tech exploited Today. We have my good friend el who got her bachelor's in ah, biomedical engineering from Johns Hopkins which is nber one in the nation for that degree. Um, she went to grad school in Japan. For a year and then she got her master's in computer science and systems engineering from the University Of Washington on the side. She's a dancer singer and a cat mama and I’m so excited to have you on the show today.

01:20.96

Elle

Thank you for having me Sharon I'm so glad to be here.

01:26.49

sharon pak

You're the first female on Tech exploited. So this is going to be super exciting I Can't wait to talk to you about your experiences. Um, and so just to kick things off. Why did you decide to major in biomedical engineering.

01:42.83

Elle

Sure thing. So when I was a we high schooler I thought that I want to become a doctor so I talked to a lot of my friends parents who were doctors and they were like well L you're really good at math and science. So maybe you should try doing.

01:43.30

sharon pak

At Johns Hopkins

02:01.15

Elle

Biomedical engineering because it's the best of engineering and science and I was like okay sure why not and so I just applied and decided that's where my 4 years of undergraduate studies would go into.

02:15.91

sharon pak

Did you like any of us stuff at all like did you like the math and science that did you like engineering did you like problem solving or did you just do it because you're interested in , the math or you're good at math and science and then it was recommended to you by. Ah, your family friend.

02:32.84

Elle

Um I think I I liked the math and engineering more than I did the biology stuff. Um, which is kind of good. Why Yeah, it's really interesting.

02:42.70

sharon pak

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's hard. Yeah.

02:49.69

Elle

Um, the biology stuff is really interesting. Ah but at the end of the day I think I am more suited to engineering than I am to anything biology related specifically. So I'm pretty glad I didn't end up going to medical school. Yeah.

03:02.10

sharon pak

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I mean a medical school is like a really long commitment too right? because you have to go to med school after you get your bachelor's and then you have to go do residency and so like props to those guys because it's a lot. It's a lot of work.

03:07.25

Elle

For sure.

03:18.70

Elle

It's a commitment for sure.

03:20.43

sharon pak

Mad respect of okay and so that's why you decided to go into biomedical engineering at Johns Hopkins and so while you're at Johns Hopkins I know that you were partaking in some research opportunities while you're there and so what type of research did you do while you're at Johns Hopkins

03:38.52

Elle

Um, so the great thing about a university like Johns Hopkins is that it is primarily a research university and so you have the opportunity to do research at any point in your like career as an undergraduate student.

03:49.27

sharon pak

Her.

03:53.30

Elle

So I had some friends who started doing research as freshmen like as soon as they joined the University Um, personally I started doing research first as a smer intern kind of research student ah in my hometown. Um.

04:10.70

sharon pak

Ah.

04:11.52

Elle

After Freshman year and otherwise I did it every single year during undergrad. Um, and the way way that I did those opportunities was honestly just cold emailing my professors. Um, so I would just go down the list of professors in like.

04:16.18

sharon pak

A while.

04:29.86

Elle

Remotely interesting fields that I was interested in and send them an email being like hi I'm a junior or a sophomore and I'm really interested in this particular project of yours. Do you have room for an undergraduate student and that's ah what I ended up doing  the.

04:40.75

sharon pak

The.

04:48.88

Elle

Later years of University I was doing research with  the brains of Alzheimer's patients and a lot of data with that.

04:56.12

sharon pak

A Wow and so how does biomedical engineering tie into like the research that you're doing with Alzheimer was it like separate or was it still intertwined and like a biomedical engineering research related thing or was it just like research and bio related stuff.

05:14.60

Elle

Um, sure, Thanks So the Pi of my laboratory the Principal investigator. Um, he was actually one of the lead professors in the biomedical engineering program and I absolutely love taking his class which is why like emailed him and said hey I'm really interested in your lab and your research.

05:16.88

sharon pak

With. And.

05:30.65

Elle

Um, and he had room for to take me on as one of his undergraduate researchers. Um, so he was pretty in intertwined. He was pretty I'm going to resay that so he was pretty involved in the major itself. Um.

05:34.75

sharon pak

I have.

05:45.70

sharon pak

The.

05:48.76

Elle

And I would say the research would be considered computational biology. Um, it's just taking biological data and using computers to ah, extract information from it. It's.

05:53.86

sharon pak

Um, what is that.

06:06.10

Elle

What a lot of people would say nowadays would be like data science. So basically biological Data science.

06:09.65

sharon pak

Okay, so like what does that mean like practically so does that mean that you're getting like a whole bunch of like for example, like people's like heart rate or like ages at which they get like heart disease or something that you're just sorting through that data making sense out of it or.

06:25.95

Elle

Um, that was definitely something you could do in the field. Ah, for the thing that I did specifically it was measuring specific parts of the brain , associated with the development of Alzheimer's disease at different.

06:38.71

sharon pak

The.

06:41.80

Elle

Points of the like individual patient's life.

06:47.91

sharon pak

Ah, okay, interesting and so did you have to like know about Alzheimer's Beforehand or did you like learn all about that stuff while you're at that lab.

06:58.44

Elle

I Think in the lab Research. It was very specific to the project. Um me personally my family dealt with a lot of actually I'm not going to talk about this me personally my family dealt with patients. With Alzheimer's disease and so that was interesting to me and why I contacted this professor but you don't necessarily have to have an extensive background in whatever field you're interested in researching as an undergraduate researcher.

07:21.48

sharon pak

Ah.

07:31.41

sharon pak

Gotcha So it's different if you're like a master's or Pc student and you have to have more background and experience in it before you go into it.

07:37.15

Elle

I Think ah it depends on the the laboratory itself by it's probably assed that you have at least some amount of knowledge or take the time and effort to research until before you start a project. Yeah.

07:52.40

sharon pak

Gotcha Okay, and so your cold calling or cold emailing of all these different professors and that's how you got that? Alzheimer's professors research lab opportunity and experience. Um. And so can you talk a little bit more about like what biomedical engineering is and like what you do as a biomedical so engineering student like once you graduate.

08:13.81

Elle

Sure thing. Um so to put it simply I would just say that biomedical engineering is solving problems that deal with ah hans han biology. Um.

08:29.39

sharon pak

Um.

08:30.39

Elle

With engineering solutions. So that's a pretty broad like it's a pretty broad area but it can include things like , imaging like Mris and ct scans ah creating. Technology to help facilitate research into diseases whether that's using like imaging or using ah massive amounts of data. Ah for a research purposes. Um or making instrentation tools for things like. Robot assisted surgery in terms of what kind of careers you can do after a major in biomedical engineering. Um, you could go to graduate school to do more biomedical engineering or any sort of field. The the.

09:09.10

sharon pak

Ah.

09:18.60

sharon pak

Okay.

09:22.40

Elle

Logic skills that you gain from just doing any sort of engineering degree pretty much transfer. Um, you could go to medical school. Um, you can join the military become an officer. Um you can join any sort. Company honestly, a big chunk of my classmates including myself ended up joining a consulting company  straight out of undergrad earned some money before you decide what else you want to do with your life or stay in consulting for like 15 years yeah so honestly, with.

09:54.53

sharon pak

Me here and her.

09:59.75

Elle

A biomedical engineering degree and even just an engineering degree in general. Um, your options are pretty open after graduating from undergrad.

10:05.87

sharon pak

I feel like there's a stigma associated with like biomedical engineering students. They want to become doctors while they're in biomedical engineering school. How many like what percentage would you say that your class at Johns Hopkins went to medical school after they got their undergraduate degree in biomedical engineering like how common or in common is it.

10:14.70

Elle

Ah.

10:24.25

Elle

I I feel like when we were in school. We used to say a third goes to grad school a third goes to medical school and a third goes into the workforce but I feel like it's more than a third like maybe half of my classmates ended up becoming doctors. Um, everyone.

10:34.28

sharon pak

Um, wow.

10:41.70

sharon pak

Wow Wow. Okay, and so that's that's kind of crazy actually like like you're going to put yourself through one of the hardest like engineering majors possible and then you're going to continue your life as a doctor. It's just like you're you're doing life on hard mode.

10:41.97

Elle

Is a doctor now from the ones that I knew from undergrad. Yeah.

10:53.69

Elle

Oh.

11:00.59

sharon pak

Like why you.

11:00.66

Elle

Wait catch this one of my best friends. Um, he did a double major in biomedical engineering and computer science at Johns Hopkins and now he's a doctor I love it.

11:13.31

sharon pak

Why what would he recommend doing an engineering undergrad to become a doctor because like obviously it's not necessary I feel like most people they do like biology or chemistry or biochem right or premed or whatever the heck.

11:16.37

Elle

Why not.

11:25.70

Elle

Um, right? Yeah yeah.

11:32.23

sharon pak

But like not not engineering like who in the right mind is he does He have a right mind that like hello hey. Wow.

11:39.39

Elle

No, he's told like 1 of the rightest minds that I've ever met. Ah I think that he just really liked the topic and I know this is mostly like a tech centered podcast. But for all of you tech kids who are also interested in medical school. Um, I've know so many people who didn't even do something like biology related before applying medical school school ah before applying to medical school I know someone who's a geology major I know someone who is a history major I know a classics major and they all ended up becoming doctors. So you don't necessarily have to be in like a medical or science related field in undergrad in order to apply and get into medical school.

12:24.98

sharon pak

You're just further emphasizing my point that this guy took the hardest path possible to become a doctor so I'm might geology major to doctor versus Biomedical engineering slash comside to doctor like hello like what are you doing sir.

12:29.82

Elle

Ah.

12:41.10

Elle

Whatever floats your boat I mean just study what you want in undergrad. Yeah.

12:42.87

sharon pak

Right? Like oh yeah, yeah, yeah for sure. Okay, and so you went from being a biomedical engineering major to  oh so I guess we could talk a little bit more about your time at Hopkins. Um, so while you're in school I know that you're.

12:58.67

Elle

Um.

13:00.86

sharon pak

A female right? and so you and I were both females in engineering. Um, let's talk about that like how was it like would you say that biomedical engineering like the spread is a little bit better or worse or like on par with other engineering majors like what would you say the ratio would be like from woman to like men in your classes and so.

13:01.10

Elle

Yes, yes.

13:19.11

sharon pak

Like that. Okay.

13:20.50

Elle

So specifically in the biomedical engineering major I'm pretty sure it was fifty fifty when I went. Um I think that's because it was pretty difficult to get into the major itself. So the department was able to say.

13:24.94

sharon pak

A while I.

13:35.14

Elle

We want a fifty fifty ratio of guys and gals in our major. Um so it was it. It was definite. It was definitely like about fifty fifty when you go into the yes I'm so sorry I didn't mean to cut you.

13:38.45

sharon pak

Yeah.

13:47.72

sharon pak

That's pretty cool other I was like that's really really cool like I didn't have that So like that's awesome.

13:53.74

Elle

Yeah, yeah I think it was definitely different for other engineering majors like mechanical engineering for sure. Um, when you go into the upper level classes though. The split gets a little bit.

14:00.67

sharon pak

Yeah.

14:10.20

Elle

Ah, skewed 1 way or the other depending on what kind of concentration you did so in my concentration which was computational biology. It skewed a lot heavier to ah male students. Um.

14:22.87

sharon pak

And.

14:25.94

Elle

And I think in one of my classes. Maybe there were let's say 50 people and four of us were female and that include the grad students. Yeah.

14:35.42

sharon pak

A Wow a while. Okay, and so you're saying that there are different types of ah biomedical engineering and so you chose computational biology. Um, what are.

14:44.65

Elle

Yes.

14:48.97

sharon pak

I didn't know that there were different types of but to me biomedical engineering is biomedical engineering I know nothing about that field right? So I'm like what are the different types of biomedical engineering like what does that Even mean.

14:58.22

Elle

Um, yeah so earlier I I mentioned like some things you could do in biomedical engineering. Um, so back when I was at Johns Hopkins there were only 5 concentrations. But I think there are more now. Um, and so.

15:03.62

sharon pak

Um, yeah.

15:15.88

Elle

You could do a concentration in something like cell and tissue engineering or medical instrentation engineering systems biology engineering and computational medicine and so the. Focus that I picked was computational biology because  I think sometime my sophomore year I took my first computer science class and I really liked it and so I kept taking more and those were within the the. Ah, what's it called. They were within the focus area classes that were required to graduate and so that just kind of sealed the deal for me which is why I ended up in the computational focused biomedical engineering classes.

16:04.49

sharon pak

Gotcha and honestly that makes a lot of sense now because now you're working as like a data analyst and you're doing some code at your job right? And you're building out programs and so .

16:10.94

Elle

Yeah.

16:16.46

sharon pak

Yeah, so let's talk about that transition like how did you go from? Well first of all what the heck is even consulting like I don't know what consultants do so I know that you kind of went from biomedical engineering at John Hopkins you got your masters. Um, then you or did you get your.

16:30.80

Elle

Um I did a job first before I got my master's yeah.

16:35.78

sharon pak

Okay, so you graduated from Johns Hopkins with your bachelor's in biomedical engineering. You got your job first as a consultant then you went and got your masters in something computer science related and then now you're working kind of in a computer science field and so like how was that.

16:41.40

Elle

Yes.

16:52.16

Elle

Ah.

16:54.10

sharon pak

Um, job progression and can you talk a little bit about that and like how you ended up where you are now.

16:59.41

Elle

Sure thing. Um, so I'm just going to preface this with I'm pretty sure it wasn't until maybe 4 years after I graduated from undergrad that I definitively ah made the. Decision that I wasn't going to go to med school because I still had that idea in the back of my head like I kind of want to be a doctor not kind of I Still really want to be a doctor but at the end of the day I don't think I would have been a good medical student. So I'm very glad I didn't end up going in that path.

17:29.43

sharon pak

Yeah.

17:31.58

Elle

Um, so take it back to at the end of ah my undergraduate degree I worked for six months at a consulting company which is some people would say is quite short I think I know a lot of people who also quit after six months but but we won't talk about that. Um, but the reason why I laughed is because I ended up following my now husband to Japan for graduate school. Um, but wait really.

18:01.30

sharon pak

Oh I didn't know that I didn't know that's why you love consulting. No like I know that you worked in consulting and like for context like her her husband I was going to say Ex-husband O Yikes ah her current husband.

18:14.79

Elle

My only husband.

18:18.39

sharon pak

Um.

18:24.31

sharon pak

That you guys know of just getting ah.

18:25.12

Elle

Ah.

18:29.40

Elle

But.

18:29.45

sharon pak

Ah, ah her her husband I was actually my coworker at my last job and so we used to be cokers together. That's how Ellen and I know each other but I didn't know yeah, but like I didn't know that you left your job to like follow.

18:39.85

Elle

That's why we're bf fs now.

18:47.83

sharon pak

Your husband to Japan that's okay, wait so we we need the tea like because I didn't even know this like what.

18:49.70

Elle

It worked out so it's great.

19:00.20

Elle

Um, so pro tip you can find maybe your future spouse in college. Ah I'm kidding ah please cut that out. Ah.

19:14.16

Elle

I'm sweating right now. Ok , so after graduating from under God I was working in the consulting company. Um, my role was specifically.

19:24.49

sharon pak

Yeah.

19:30.42

Elle

Um, on a project on a government project. Um and the day to day for me was doing project management which is 100% not part of my personality. Um, and it was very stressful because I'm not very.

19:31.58

sharon pak

Yeah.

19:47.77

Elle

I'm not fond of having to harp on people who are like engineers for the.

19:51.14

sharon pak

Because you're like they're smarter than me I just graduated like yeah.

19:58.62

Elle

Yeah, who is this girl like big like hi. Do you have this ready. It was like so random I thought I would be doing something more tech related or more like hands on. Um, but they just needed the bodies and that's kind of the. The not so great thing about consulting right? after undergrad is because you'll probably be put in something that's like pretty low level which some people might like and just want the paycheck but it was really stressful. Yeah,  so I was doing that and started dating. My now husband who was just about to graduate from Johnson Hopkins as well and his plan. Yeah yeah.

20:39.60

sharon pak

Oh case, he's 1 year younger. Ah. Um, makes so much more sense now. Okay continue continue.

20:46.13

Elle

But ok and I was dating him with the idea of like oh maybe we'll just break off when he leaves I guess and then he was like you need to come with me and I was like Ok. Um, and the rest is history.

21:05.20

sharon pak

Um, wait what? no no no, no no no the rest is not history. You need to explain my guy what you mean like okay so how long were you guys dating before you decide to go with them Japan to like do a masses in Japan.

21:18.70

Elle

I think maybe like  like before we start decided maybe like a month

21:21.19

sharon pak

You only dated for one month and then you followed him to Japan.

21:25.20

Elle

I Figure like that he wasn't going to be a serial Killer and then if I absolutely hate it I would just lead.

21:32.30

sharon pak

There's no way. There's no way you like do you don't you don't speak Japanese and neither does he he's white I know but like did he know Japanese before like oh he did.

21:42.51

Elle

I Mean what? that's a lot. No he does speak Japanese What are you odd about yeah, he did. Yeah he was fluid.

21:53.76

sharon pak

I thought that he learned japanese while he was in Japan.

21:57.89

Elle

Yeah, but that was when we went to grad school was the second a technique was a third time he went to Japan but he had the previous year ah in like his ah third year at hopkins he decided I want to study abroad in Japan. Um, I'm going to create some sort of like study abroad plan with the study abroad office and so the japanese school year starts in April so from the second semester like January until April he studied japanese and then when he went to Japan in April. He didn't speak english and so that's how he learned japanese by forcing the speaking japanese if someone tried to speak to him in english he was just like no and then the next year when he graduated. That's when we went to Japan.

22:45.92

sharon pak

Did you guys know each other for a long time Beforehand or did you guys just like me and then you just dated for a month and you're like yes going with you. That's a little bit better.

22:52.77

Elle

No, we were friends for like a year before.

23:05.26

Elle

Um, welcome to Sharon's  podcast tech exploit I just.

23:13.50

sharon pak

Guys like you guys don't know me in real life like you guys just listen to my podcast but all my friends are literally psycho like exhibit a right here? .

23:20.31

Elle

I Would just like to let you know you're one of my psycho friends too.

23:23.80

sharon pak

Yeah, so like guys my my friends seem normal on my podcast but in real life. They're all crazy. Okay like exhibit a ok so you you follow your then boyfriend.

23:33.69

Elle

Um, oh my god.

23:40.46

Elle

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

23:42.63

sharon pak

To Japan where he has become fluent and you don't speak the language and then you guys fall in love in Japan and decide to get engaged or like what what happened.

24:21.96

sharon pak

Well obviously because you went with him to Japan like so you know.

24:29.20

Elle

I could always just book a ticket and leave you know like I had money for my job and I had an engineering degree. So if anything was bad I can just leave you know what? I mean  and Japan is like a relatively safe place. Um, for foreigners. Um, but in terms of we're that okay in terms of me, not knowing Japanese before I moved to Japan. Um, the university that we ended up going to had. A lot of classes that were taught in english because they were trying to move toward  a graduate school that was taught primarily in english so that the researchers that come out of that graduate school are , able to communicate with a lot of different researchers from different countries. Um.

25:05.35

sharon pak

Ah.

25:21.89

Elle

So that's why it seemed like although it seems crazy. Um, it's actually a lot more normal to find like universities where you can take English speaking classes because they want their students to be able to communicate with like international researchers and other.

25:33.47

sharon pak

Yeah, for sure.

25:41.39

Elle

Um, other researchers from around the world and the de facto like scientific language right now is English So yeah.

25:47.81

sharon pak

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I mean like  so I know that you guys went to Japan and basically went there for free for masters right? So like how did you guys pull that off how does that work.

25:57.63

Elle

Right? Um, so both my husband and I ah separately applied to this japanese government scholarship geared toward foreign students. Um, who are. Interested in pursuing graduate studies in Japan and we were both very fortunate to be accepted into those scholarships and we're able to have our tuition waived in Japan and have a living stipend. Um. Although graduate school and undergrad in general is so much cheaper there than it is compared to the United States that even if we didn't have the waiver. Um I would highly recommend going to graduate school there because it's such an experience and you get to meet all sorts of different people.

26:46.42

sharon pak

Wait So they also pay for your living expenses too though. That's huge.

26:51.81

Elle

Yeah, you got a stipend every month. Um, and they also help look for there were a lot of resources for international students. They would help you look for a dormitory to stay in. Um, but we opted to stay in a share house so that we could live together.

27:07.59

sharon pak

Okay.

27:09.11

Elle

Basically , and they have like students who will help you if you're not comfortable with japanese , but if you're living there for a couple years you should probably learn japanese and so while yeah I can't. Say that I'm fluid in japanese I'm not like at 0 per set just to set their records I took classes in japanese actually like science engineering classes in japanese it wasn't on purpose. It was to graduate. Um.

27:32.30

sharon pak

Yeah I mean like you went to smother? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and so then like that's crazy. Ah.

27:46.27

Elle

They forgot that they accepted me into the major but it's fine. It's fine.

27:51.55

sharon pak

Okay, and so then , while you're there. So I cover like everything so like you didn't have to use any of your own money while you're in Japan because like your living stipends your housing like your food and all that stuff was also covered like.

28:03.84

Elle

Um, , yeah, everything? Yeah ah the the scholarship at that time I think it's a little bit more difficult now because cost of living has gone up higher and my 1 friend who is a ph d student at that university said. It's a little bit harder now. But ah when we went it was deaf we were definitely able to cover all of our expenses The only thing that's out of pocket would be like if you went back to your home country to visit family or something like that.

28:32.23

sharon pak

Well I'll say les where do I sign up, you know, like.

28:37.59

Elle

I Mean if you're being serious I'll send it you later? Um, it's the mixed scholarship and E X T yeah.

28:41.38

sharon pak

Um, what is it called? Ah, how do you spell that mext that sounds like a scholarship to like go to school of Mexico not Japan I would like yeah anyways. We're not going there but okay so mixed scholarship that's really cool actually that's an awesome like opportunity for you guys to go to school there. Get our me Alex got a degree  over there and then he you guys had your living costs like fully paid for and then.

29:03.30

Elle

No.

29:17.79

Elle

Ah.

29:18.27

sharon pak

Ah, to experience a whole new culture and even learn a new language. So that's awesome. Um, and so then after that you decide to ah, finish out and get a degree from the University of Washington because I know that you had to come back to the states due to like ah medical  purposes. Yeah.

29:29.33

Elle

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

29:34.99

sharon pak

And so then , when you came back to the states for your masters at the University Of Washington was that when you knew like for sure like a like med school is not going to happen when you came back from your program in Japan.

29:45.30

Elle

Ah.

29:52.55

sharon pak

Or did you okay.

29:52.65

Elle

Yeah, , well there was a step in between ah when I when I dropped out of grad school in Japan due to the medical reasons. Um I had this thought in my head that I was going to be a professional photographer and so I did freelance photography for about a year

30:01.62

sharon pak

Is a.

30:10.53

Elle

And decided that was not for me and so when my husband moved back to America after finishing his graduate degree in Japan I decided I am going to finish out my master's , here in Washington and so that's ultimately when I decided. For sure that I wasn't going to go and get a medical degree when I wanted to get this masters. Um, so so yeah

30:31.59

sharon pak

And.

30:39.00

sharon pak

Okay, and then why did you choose? , computer science and systems engineering is it just because you knew you liked programming. Okay.

30:47.20

Elle

Yeah, it was really just because like I knew we like programming or I like programming and , we were moving to the seattleish area and so there is a ton of tech companies here. So in my head I was like okay I'll get a computer science degree and then I'm going to join some random tech company in Seattle which didn't happen.

31:08.84

sharon pak

Because you now work for the city right? And you're like doing government ah development to like programs and your current role and so ah, let's talk a little bit about that like what are what is it like working for a government entity for like the city.

31:09.52

Elle

Yeah, yeah, yes.

31:23.45

Elle

Yes, yes, sure. Um, so to s it up I work as a government. No black sorry saying that again. Um.

31:24.50

sharon pak

Um, and what does your like day-to-day job kind of look like.

31:39.44

Elle

So To s it up I work for a public utility and my specific role deals with long term resource planning. Um and also like other ad hoc analysis dealing with that. And so my day to day is mostly , Software. It's ah it's ah an even split of software development and Data Science. So for for our Team. We built a piece of software in order to.

32:09.50

sharon pak

Um, okay.

32:16.54

Elle

Simulate  our system our utility system and then we take the output of that simulation and analyze it. Um, a lot of other things go into creating the data inputs for.

32:33.19

sharon pak

Smith.

32:36.12

Elle

That simulation and so that's why I kind of describe it as half software development and half data science because , because that's what I do every day.

32:46.17

sharon pak

What is software development and what is data science and let's start there. You have so many questions. Yeah.

32:55.55

Elle

Ah, ok, , so I a software development is I would say the combination of back end and front end in creating a piece of software. But.

33:10.63

sharon pak

Okay, so you're a programmer like typical like programmer. What you think you know like coding bro like pro. Whatever right? yeah.

33:12.90

Elle

That does the things you tell it to do? Yeah, yeah yeah, so like initially I was coding in go. Um, like Google's programming language go and we recently switched to python so that it was a little bit more accessible with other  employees. Um, and for the data science aspect. Ah, we do it in different parts of.

33:35.79

sharon pak

Ah.

33:43.73

Elle

Are like research process for the role that I do  that includes maybe creating scenarios for different like weather. So Sorry that includes creating like different weather scenarios as Inputs. Or different like expectations in load like electrical load as input which as you can I don't know if you would know but someone might who is in the in the industry might find that there's a lot of things that go into simulating that.

34:05.85

sharon pak

Okay.

34:19.78

Elle

Ah, so that's where the data science comes in  and that is basically just taking a bunch of data and ah taking a bunch of data and having a computer help you what information. What help you figure out what information can be gleaned from that data please cut that to make it sound Good. Um.

34:46.19

sharon pak

Okay, okay, so let me try and regurgitate what I think you're saying  so what you're saying is basically at your job since you work at a public utility company I'm going to use electricity for example because I kind of know how electricity works question mark.

34:52.72

Elle

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

35:04.20

sharon pak

Um, so let's say if you're having a bunch of Homesar connected to a grid right? and they're all trying to take power from this grid to power up your apartments. Ah your car chargers at home. Whatever your washing machines and so a data scientist with your simulation thing will look at how much.

35:10.74

Elle

Yeah, .

35:22.14

sharon pak

Ah, weather would affect your grid where it's like if you have really bad weather or like you don't have any sun and let's say you're getting sun from like solar power or whatever. It's like how would that affect how much energy we have input-wise and like how much we could actually power up the city if we have bedwether or whatever. Um, and then also you're saying that.

35:37.20

Elle

Ah.

35:40.84

sharon pak

But like a data science person. You would see you would like simulate how much electricity would be like pulled out from that grid and if you'd have enough like electricity to like power that area that kind of like something that would be like an example of how data science like plays into that role or.

35:58.90

Elle

Yeah, that's a pretty good example. Um I can give you a more specific example if that would help or if you don't want me to go into that. That's okay, we don't have to talk about it. Yeah no, no, that's definitely something.

36:04.64

sharon pak

No go for it I'm like does that does that make sense. So or am I like wrong.

36:13.24

Elle

In my field that you could use data Science for  I mean Data Science is mostly just taking a bunch like massive amounts of unstructured data and using Computers unstructured I mean so.

36:16.69

sharon pak

Gotcha.

36:21.68

sharon pak

Um, what is unstructured data.

36:29.25

Elle

Do you have an episode of anybody who deals with databases. Ok well, you should find someone who deals with databases. Um, let's see So yeah.

36:32.28

sharon pak

Now.

36:41.61

sharon pak

Also databases like in my head right? like the tldr like Thousand foot overview if you will is think of an excel spreadsheet and you just have all these different colns full of data and you can have nbers in there. You can have words in there. Whatever right? and you can like sort it.

36:48.84

Elle

Yeah.

36:53.52

Elle

Yeah, and it's all labeled. Yeah yeah, yeah.

36:57.90

sharon pak

And it's all labeled data and then you could like make a pivot table right? and then you could like forth through all your data and that to me is like what and data sheet or data. Whatever you want to call. It is yeah data base. That's the word I was looking for.

37:08.13

Elle

Yeah, a database for sure. Um, although don't make don't eat make a database excel unless it's a small amount of data If it's a massive amount of data that used excel. Um, yeah, ah so.

37:20.83

sharon pak

Um, okay.

37:26.60

Elle

God How do I exploit it. An example, an example. Um.

37:29.12

sharon pak

So someone's like interested in Data science because I feel like that's a really growing field right now right? like you see data science everywhere. So it's like what does that Even mean I don't know what that means.

37:35.54

Elle

Yes, yeah, there's massive amounts of data everywhere in every single field. Um, actually one of my friends. Um, she's ah she's like a college student right now. She reached out to me being like what should I focus on. She's a student in like 1 of the Uc schools I think  in computer science with a focus in data science but she wants she has to like pick a focus area within that and there were like 7 or 8 options and I was like well what do you want to do with your life and she's like. I don't know and I was like well then pick the one that sounds most fun. So like some of the the focus areas for that she could choose from are like social media energy systems economics biology , like. Linguistics like anything that you can think of that is data which is everything can be , can be used in the field of data science. It's literally everywhere.

38:42.53

sharon pak

Okay, so you get so let's say for social media right? like data would be like how many likes followers, engagement etc. Whatever right? And so a data scientist would take all that stuff and do what.

38:46.63

Elle

Yeah.

38:56.51

Elle

Um, they might create like a user profile in order to sell you something? Um, for example, if you have like your microphone on in your phone. Um, and let's say like Instagram maybe you have your microphone phone access.

39:01.88

sharon pak

Oh.

39:13.50

Elle

Ah, given to Instagram , they'll collect the data from your microphone and then parse that data and give you targeted ads. So maybe if you're talking about penguins I'm only going to get penguin ads although this won't actually work because I turned mine off. But .

39:25.92

sharon pak

Ah.

39:32.73

Elle

You can parse the data that you get from. Maybe people's web searches or their likes and follows  and create like a ah ghost user profile in order to see like oh I can try and sell this to this type of person this product to this person.

39:50.30

sharon pak

Ah I.

39:51.37

Elle

Or this person likes this I'm going to shove like these recommendations to these people. Yeah.

39:56.70

sharon pak

Is that why I see like tiktoks and like Instagram reels or people get like their boyfriend's phones and they're like designer bag you know, like vacation to Hawaii and I'm like genius brilliant like ah.

40:02.65

Elle

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's totally what's happening behind the scenes. It's that they'll collect the data and push those ads toward you.

40:16.18

sharon pak

Dang that's wild. Okay, so data scientists are evil guys like ah.

40:26.31

Elle

Rocket Engineers are Evil guys. Ah.

40:33.64

sharon pak

But okay, okay, interesting huh. So now I know what I was always wondering like what what the he did data analysts the scientists do now I know.

40:43.00

Elle

Day. It's just like , it's also a combination of like applied statistics. There's someone who oh my God I have to tell you this story and I think you're I was reading this book. It was a fiction book written by someone who has clearly never met engineers in her life.

40:50.71

sharon pak

Okay.

41:02.27

Elle

And she had this character who was like 1 of those like I'm so smart with glasses I'm going to put my glasses up and oh yes, talking very smart words out of my mouth and she was talking to the main character being like I'm not sure whether I'm going a focus on data science or applied statistics and I was like that's literally the same thing. Um, with caveats obviously like 1 would focus more on like the mathematics and one will focus more on applied by Dana Science is a pretty fancy term for.

41:25.66

sharon pak

Sure surester.

41:33.92

Elle

All encompassing. There's massive amounts of data and you are analyzing it using mathematical means with a computer like that's all it is.

41:40.56

sharon pak

Yeah, so like I always hated it like in high school and college where your teachers like you can't use your calculator in the real world. Once you start working you know you're not allowed to have your calculator or the internet right? It's like.

41:52.85

Elle

Ah, ah, ah.

41:55.21

sharon pak

That's a lie roe. That's a big fat lie right? like.

41:58.24

Elle

It is a lie but I'm going to tell you I can count on my fingers multiple occasions where being able to do mental math has helped greatly.

42:10.91

sharon pak

Guys I'm a bad Asian so I really suck at doing mental math and I'm helping to build rockets. Okay, so it's not that important.

42:21.56

Elle

As long as you measure 5 times and cut once it's ok and have someone else. Ah I think the saying is measure twice cut once like when you're when you have to like maybe cut a piece of wood.

42:25.30

sharon pak

What does that mean.

42:37.38

sharon pak

Oh oh Gotcha Gotcha gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Um, yeah, but huh.

42:37.57

Elle

Because you can only cut once so make sure that the measurement is correct I was making an idiom up. Yeah oh my God speaking Sorry continue fine.

42:54.70

sharon pak

Ah, you finished what was ah.

42:55.34

Elle

No, it's fine. We were talking about your rocket engineer.

43:01.73

sharon pak

Oh yeah, so like you you don't need to be like crazy good at like mental math I whip up my calculator to give a freaking tip you know at the restaurant. Um, because I cannot do math in my head to save my life and no one cares.

43:09.20

Elle

Yeah.

43:19.57

Elle

Ah, yeah.

43:21.66

sharon pak

Um, so speaking of other lies we were told in college right? Another big one is like failing a class is the end of the world. Your life is over right? I failed a couple classes in college and had to retake them I know that you failed a couple classes in college and had to retake them.

43:23.67

Elle

Yes.

43:34.99

Elle

Yes I failed yes I failed one class and also got a d in another class but in my major you're allowed to graduate with 6 credits maxim of a failing of a non passing grade.

43:38.30

sharon pak

So let's talk about that.

43:52.21

Elle

Um, so four of those credits were from the one D that I got in a class. Um, but that was not the class that I retook it was a different class. Um, but yeah in my software year I was going through a lot of like.

43:58.66

sharon pak

Okay.

44:06.41

Elle

Like personal issues. A lot of it dealing with like stress and like mental health and like relationships with people and I was not in the best mental state and definitely absolutely failed a class I think I got maybe the lowest score on one of the tests Before. Um, but it's not the end of the world because you can retake a class.. It's fine. Yeah, oh my God twins. Yeah.

44:32.33

sharon pak

You know what's funny is my sophomore years also when I failed all my classes 20

44:43.12

sharon pak

Because I was also going through like a ton of stuff right? like I was going through like stuff with like my mental health with my family and like etc and it was just a lot and so and I ended up either failing or dropping all my classes. Um, my.

44:43.36

Elle

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

44:56.80

Elle

Yeah I've also dropped classes. Yeah, ah.

44:59.65

sharon pak

Yeah, but it was only my sophomore year where like I failed and dropped everything in that one semester but because and engineeringing is like fall spring only that's why I ended up taking 5 years to graduate because I canno't retake the classes the following fall at to wait till the next year's spring

45:07.46

Elle

Ah, yeah, yeah I also had to retake a class that was only offered in one of the ah semesters. So I ended up graduating a semester late which I felt so bad about. But it's so normal. Um I think just the people around me were just they're all smart. They're all really smart So It was really back then it was so traatizing.

45:21.22

sharon pak

Um.

45:38.21

sharon pak

I so relate like so relate like okay so in high school all my friends like went to Berkeley and like all these like really prestigious like colleges. Um, and so I kept on feelinging myself like comparing myself to them even though we weren't at the same like university or whatever.

45:39.25

Elle

Yeah. Are yeah.

45:55.90

sharon pak

And I'm like my friends that like are at a completely different school are looking down on me because they know my grades which is absolutely not true, right? Like they don't freaking care. No no, absolutely not right? and so  and then I also just like.

46:02.65

Elle

They don't care. They probably weren't with thinking about it. Ah.

46:12.00

sharon pak

Dealt with so much imposter syndrome because like you were lucky because you had like a fifty fifty split right between like females and males in your major  and mechanical at my school like I think the racial probably like 1 to 10 maybe like 1 to 1 to 8 1 to 10 something like that right? at the time I don't know if it's gotten better or worse since.

46:16.87

Elle

And.

46:23.99

Elle

Ah, that's so stressful. Yeah yeah.

46:31.21

sharon pak

Um, I graduated in 2020 but I was in a sorority and yeah and so there is like we had like these colored backpacks right? What like our sorority like chapter on it and every single sorority had their like.

46:33.57

Elle

Ah.

46:43.21

Elle

Ah.

46:47.23

sharon pak

Backpack So Everyone would be like oh are you like the pink sorority are you the red one are you the blue one you know so it's cute. Minus I don't like I wasn't doing well in my classes So me. Not doing well in my classes compounding with me being in a sorority I'm like everyone thinks I'm a freaking idiot like I'm that db Sorority girl in engineering right.

47:08.53

Elle

He they probably honestly don't didn't even think about it at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

47:13.86

sharon pak

No, they didn't at all but I did and I got so dang in my head right? that I had two backpacks.

47:26.67

Elle

No, just so you didn't look like you were in a sorority.

47:29.66

sharon pak

See so I could talk about this stuff now because my chapter won't come at me. Maybe I don't know you know like 4 years not for life or something like that. But like what I did was like girls aren't in engineering right. Like that's just not a thing so I had my sorority backpack in my car and then when I went to my engineering classes because like who in their right mind is gonna hang on the junior college. It's like in the like the far back corner of campus. No one goes there right? and so I would carry.

47:59.67

Elle

Ah.

48:07.13

sharon pak

Around like a normal backpack that was not my sorority backpack around my engineering college because I didn't want people to think I was db because in my head I was like stupid right? and I didn't want people to think I was stupid for like carrying around a sorority backpack on top of being already stupid right? And so.

48:07.29

Elle

Oh my gosh.

48:14.35

Elle

Um, oh my God yeah.

48:20.21

Elle

Oh.

48:25.30

sharon pak

Ah, and then when I would like hang out with my like sorority sisters and like other friends on campus I would switch my backpack So I would like go put my laptop like in my other backpack in my car and then I because like they would kill me if.

48:30.20

Elle

Oh my god.

48:40.62

Elle

You should send me a photo of this backpack I Want to know what it looks like. Okay.

48:41.67

sharon pak

I was like not caring. We got a new one every year. Yeah, , it's at my parents' house but somewhere I would have to go look for it. But yeah, so that was my life I was like Hannah Montana.

49:01.49

Elle

Ah, oh my God We could do an entire episode about being a girly girl and in a sorority and engineering.

49:05.44

sharon pak

Wait. So did you not experience that type of like and am I just psychotic like no one else went through this one.

49:14.67

Elle

So so there's 2 2 answers to that question. Um I'm going to try and remember to answer both of them. Ah so when I was first in the first couple years of my major I didn't because we were all together. We all took the same classes. Um, a lot of. The pre-rex for engineering classes did skew heavily toward like more male students. Um, but honestly I feel like everyone was just collectively suffering and being kind of nerdy. So it didn't really bother me anyway. Um, yeah, , and then in like the upper classes where.

49:41.52

sharon pak

Yeah.

49:48.86

Elle

The classes that I took were heavily like computer science. So it skewed more male back then , it was a little intimidating because I really didn't want to be like that db girl in their class. So I tried really hard and I did pretty. Well in some classes and then I was like in the middle for other classes. So I think it wasn't as stressful as it couldn't could have been  but I definitely feel the imposter syndrome for that. Ah, the second part of the answer is of being in a sorority and feeling like Hannah Montana. Um, I actually only joined a sorority my senior year of uni. So I had a different experience than what you did. So I only really experienced it like in the last oops sorry I only experienced that in the last ah year of I guess a year and a half of my ah university career. And it was absolutely the best decision I ever made. Um I think part of it is because I didn't have to pay dues for all for years but because I was only in it for a year and a half right? So , yeah, but for for all 4 years but  what was interesting.

50:51.25

sharon pak

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I was like what you mean you didn't pay dues like hello.

51:05.00

Elle

Our sorority when I joined  is because we were the first class of that sorority on campus. Um, a lot of the yeah we the founding class. Um they the soror actually used to be at the school in previous years but 

51:10.47

sharon pak

Oh you guys who are founding fathers like found founding mothers. Yeah.

51:24.47

Elle

They got kicked off campus and then after like 4 years they the national ah sorority was invited back on because they need another sorority to facilitate not facilitate to I guess facilitate all of the women who want to join sororities. Um.

51:39.35

sharon pak

The.

51:42.56

Elle

So when I joined it was prior to rush. Um, which at our school was in the second half the second semester. Um, and so all of the girls in the founding class were upper classmen. They were either sophomores and above.

51:56.21

sharon pak

Dinner.

51:59.73

Elle

Um, and what's interesting is there were actually a disproportionate amount of biomedical engineers who joined my sorority that year. Um, at in the founding class and this don't quote me because this is totally just based off of my feeling I think.

52:04.43

sharon pak

What.

52:19.58

Elle

A lot of it has to do with when you're a freshman. You're really scared and you don't want to like join a sorority or like less what at least for me when I was a freshman I didn't want to join a sorority because I was scared that I was going to fail all my classes. Um, and so I didn't. And I definitely regretted it because I think that sisterhood is like really important. Um, and I think there were a lot of other girls who are in bioedical engineering who felt the same thing that I did and ended up joining the sorority as an upper classman to be in the founding class. Um I think. Now. It's a lot more like diverse in majors and stuff but there was definitely a disproportionate amount of biometical engineers in the founding. Ah what is it called roster of my sorority.

53:02.49

sharon pak

Yeah I didn't know that you guys were like the founding roster Fathers Mothers. Whatever.

53:10.67

Elle

It's just a random thing that happened I keep I Sometimes forget about it honestly.

53:16.21

sharon pak

That's like so different from my experience because like my so had already been there Obviously  I was okay so my big. The only reason why not The only reason why that's messed up but like a big reason why I wanted my big as my big is because she was the only engineer in my entire chapter.

53:18.30

Elle

Yeah, yeah.

53:23.95

Elle

Yeah, that's a solid reason to have someone who you can relate to.

53:33.80

sharon pak

Yeah, but guess what that girl freaking switched after she picked me up as a little. Yeah she switched from engineering to business and I'm like bro what is this so big if you're listening to this.

53:40.62

Elle

Um, so like switch her major you mean? oh no.

53:50.63

sharon pak

Yeah I'm talking about you? Okay, like .

53:52.43

Elle

What about your little did she end up doing engineering. Oh no.

53:57.39

sharon pak

Now my littles were not engineering at all. Ah I was literally the only engineer my entire chapter. Yeah, ah like way later when I was like a senior like another girl came on and she was an engineering student but like up until her like and.

54:03.92

Elle

That's crazy.

54:09.61

Elle

Ah.

54:13.20

Elle

Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah.

54:13.71

sharon pak

I was literally literally one in like a chapter of over a hundred girls. Um, who is an engineering student Hence why I was like I could switch backpacks and no one's going to know.

54:24.61

Elle

Ah I was about to ask.

54:24.89

sharon pak

No, ah so across all of panahel panhellenic. So like all of the sororities we had on campus. There was only one other girl who wast engineering and so so there were 2 42000 people so I knew the other girl we weren't like.

54:28.31

Elle

Yeah, yeah, really what? how big was your school. Wow. Okay.

54:44.58

sharon pak

Super close but like we knew each other obviously  and so yeah, there were literally only two girls that I knew of in engineering at the time when I was in school across all of our sororities on campus just kind of crazy to think about now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

54:45.59

Elle

Yeah.

54:58.25

Elle

Yeah, that that's like really crazy because we had a lot of engineers ah in not just my sorority and just like all of the sororities and I just looked up the undergraduate enrollment and recently it's like 6000 people

55:14.56

sharon pak

Yes, your is a lot faller.

55:15.80

Elle

Total. But then again I think like sororities are a little different at Hopkins and they are at like other schools because we are primarily a research university.

55:21.39

sharon pak

Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the nerd school.

55:29.75

Elle

Yeah, like we were very chill. My littles were also not engineers. So yeah.

55:38.56

sharon pak

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, and so you said that you think that I was one of the best ah like decisions you ever made and like why is that.

55:44.21

Elle

Yeah,  I think that it's really important to make friends and connections when you're an undergrad that's like arguably like the most important thing to do when you're in college is to make friends and connections.

56:00.14

sharon pak

Yeah, yeah.

56:01.93

Elle

Like screw the degree like focus connections. Good connections make real friends. Don't make fake friends. But yeah I think the connecting with people is very important and like the reason why you should go to University if you choose to.

56:18.55

sharon pak

Yeah I mean like to add onto that. Um, it's a lot harder for you to make friends once you graduate than it is for you to make friends while you're in school because you're not surrounded by a bunch of people who are the same age as you anymore a bunch of people. It's just hard to find those people like you know they're around but it's like where are they you know like I can't find a.

56:25.39

Elle

Ah.

56:30.93

Elle

Yeah, you have to go outside to find them. You have to like actually do things.

56:36.57

sharon pak

Ah, yeah, so like adult friendships are just like a lot harder to make in general and to maintain  and then like as long as you get your degree you know, just like graduate like you don't have to have like a 4.0 gpa special as an engineering student.

56:42.60

Elle

M.

56:56.34

sharon pak

But you need to graduate oh I had a 3.01 let's go baby overagekeeper I had a 2.95 until I got a job offer and they told me that I couldn't keep my job offer.

56:56.43

Elle

Definitely didn't have a 4.0 I had a 2.94.

57:09.51

Elle

Ah, and you did it.

57:12.24

sharon pak

Unless I raise my Gps to 3.0 plus and my last year of college I got straight a's to get the 3.01 and my dad was like what the heck you had the ability to do this the whole time. Why did't you do this and I'm like cause I I have to like.

57:23.24

Elle

That's amazing.

57:29.78

Elle

Ah I Do think that's a really important thing about note to make though a point to make is , don't like bust your by I Real outtic Curs. We probably not out to Curs. Don't bust your butt trying to get like perfect scores if. Getting average scores is good enough because your mental health will thank you your social life will thank you. Your physical health will thank you if you're not as stressed out good enough will get you the degree and will get you a job and don't stress about it like.

58:06.24

sharon pak

And no one cares about your Gpa after your first job.

58:08.43

Elle

It's all good I can guarantee you even the hiring managers to care about your Gpa as someone who hires people no cares about your gpa just obviously like don't be like straight ds on like we not that you could graduate with straight ds but like. Yeah, yeah.

58:28.33

sharon pak

Yeah, yeah, like it's literally only your first job if even that that they care about your Gpa it matters the most honestly for internships. Ah so.

58:31.24

Elle

Yeah.

58:39.20

Elle

Yeah, actually not even yes and no yes and no sorry for some internships. Yes, it depends on the company I think ah.

58:45.45

sharon pak

For all the more prestigious companies I feel like if you want to work at the more prestigious companies and get internships there. They do care about Gpa you like you need to have at leastsa through point. No, but it's a lot more competitive. So actually you want to hire Gpa like a lot of our interns that I see. Um.

58:52.82

Elle

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

59:04.30

Elle

Ah.

59:04.83

sharon pak

Have like a three point four like a three point five plus right just because we're so competitive and there's so many students applying so it's like when you have all these stellar candidates. Well now what these start filtering off of Gpa right? So .

59:07.29

Elle

Yeah, yeah.

59:18.00

Elle

Yeah, , so an example that could not counter that but an alternative is if you start doing internships as a freshman in college. Um, that might help you with being competitive compared to peers who have never had internships and have better Gps than you. So like if you had a less than stellar gpa at the end of university but you had like 4 years of internships either during the smers or through college. Um that is more valuable than having a perfect Gpa and no experience.

59:51.98

sharon pak

That was literally my strat because my Gpa sucked right? and I I knew for a fact that like no matter how hard I studied like my ex-boyfriend freaking piss me off in college. Okay, like we had a quiz that I was like settinging my butt off for.

59:59.80

Elle

Ah, yeah, .

01:00:09.66

Elle

Yeah, ah.

01:00:10.31

sharon pak

He went drinking with his friends to go get Korean barbecue and then for lunch like they went drinking and I'm like no I'm a be a good student and I'm a study for our quiz comes back I give him my flashcards that I was studying off of he gets a higher grade on our quiz than I did and we' were dating So I knew that he hadn't studied the entire time and I'm like how is this possible.

01:00:17.99

Elle

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that definitely happens. Yeah, it.

01:00:29.89

sharon pak

Right? Like you suck. Ah.

01:00:34.30

sharon pak

I'm like you're not even sober right now your face is no red right? You have like Asian Glow like hello.

01:00:42.22

Elle

Ah I've definitely had a friend who like overslept the final exam and like came in and then like took the exam in like 30 minutes an hour and then just left and got a great score. Yeah, they did.

01:00:54.60

sharon pak

And they did well bra I literally make them.

01:00:59.49

Elle

But I also had another friend who just submitted like half of their questions answered and knew that they failed and then submit and leave so it could go either way.

01:01:09.14

sharon pak

Yeah, life life ain't fair man life ain't fair. Um, but point being so going back to my original point my strat since I knew that I was not going to stand out with a high Gpa That's just not no matter how hard I tried I was just not a good test taker.

01:01:17.40

Elle

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, me too which is why I'd be a terrible med student makes sense.

01:01:27.39

sharon pak

And a lot of test anxiety. Not a good testtaker and makes sense makes sense. Yeah, and so I was like well I'm not going to stand out with my Gpa and I'm like what can I do to stand out and I'm like internships and.

01:01:42.62

Elle

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:45.55

sharon pak

Volunteer and leadership experience and that's what I did  because that was the only way for me to have a chance at getting a good job once I graduated.

01:01:56.52

Elle

Yeah, all you need is like that first and into your first job and anything that happened in college doesn't really matter? Yeah, .

01:02:02.52

sharon pak

So true. Yeah, like get your first job and you're good to go like be good at your first job. Get a lot of good experience. Learn a lot. Um, and you're chilling bro like you're good. Okay, and so I love.

01:02:11.67

Elle

Yeah, yep.

01:02:19.52

sharon pak

All the tips that you gave L so far. It's been fantastic. Do you have any ah advice for current college students on any last advice I guess for current college students of , any words of knowledge any words of wisdom.

01:02:28.11

Elle

Yeah.

01:02:35.81

Elle

Um, definitely words of wisdom some smary from the things that we talked about today. Um, don't stress too Hard. Don't it at the end of the day. It's not a big deal. Um, obviously try not to actively fail your classes. But if you do It's not the end of the world. Ah, but , do internships if you have the ability to ah take leadership positions. Um.

01:03:06.61

Elle

If you have the option. Actually you would if you're an engineering student. You'll have the option to take classes that have a heavy focus on projects take those classes because those classes are the ones that you can use as , building blocks for ah one how to work with other people.

01:03:26.50

Elle

2 as examples for things you can talk about in interviews when you apply to those internships and jobs after  after university not even just jobs even graduate school. These are all things that you can talk about  if you take those like project oriented classes. Um, otherwise do projects on your by yourself outside of classes if you are so inclined and crazy enough to do that and are interested but also just make lots of friends and hang out with people because . Talking to them can be the reason why you get your new next job or the reason why you get into the industry that you're in you know? Yeah Thank you so much sharon.

01:04:09.77

sharon pak

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so good. So good, but perfect. Thank you so much L This was so much fun and my pleasure. So I'm ah end it.